Isa: 0:00

Welcome to A Better Way, the podcast dedicated to exploring deep topics in Ellie's book.

Elly: 0:05

Integrating Faith and Psychology in a Better Way. I'm Issa and I am Ellie. Hello everybody, I'm Ellie and I am Issa, and you are watching A Better Way the podcast, yeah and it's kind of getting chilly out there.

Isa: 0:22

It's November and we've talked several times about the holidays, how to prep for the holidays, how to find coping mechanisms. Today we have a more somber conversation, but actually it's how to make it manageable.

Elly: 0:36

Right, yes, we can still take care of ourselves. Yes, so we're going to talk about surviving the holidays, and it's really a better way to navigate grief during the season. Before we do, he said did you know my birthday is right around the corner?

Isa: 0:50

Yeah, yeah I found out last month.

Elly: 0:56

So I will be on a cruise. So you know, that's enough about me, let's talk about that's pretty exciting. Who wants to be Ellie?

Isa: 1:04

Yeah, I know, right, know that's what I've got me let's talk about. That's pretty exciting. Yeah, who wants to be ellie?

Elly: 1:09

yeah, I know, right, okay, so grief during the holidays.

Isa: 1:10

I think people mention it all the time, right? Yeah, you hear it in passing like oh, holidays are hard for people and it's. It's one of those platitudes. That's like we say it very out loud, but you don't think about what that means I think we automatically assume death right there's many things and many reasons you could be grieving, right, right, yeah yeah, and there really are.

Elly: 1:32

I think today we're really going to talk about that, um, how to, uh, you know, really walk through that season of grief and when you've lost a loved one I know for me, you know I wear this necklace.

Elly: 1:42

this is my mom.

Elly: 1:44

Uh, this is my mom's necklace and I can remember hearing about. Grief is hard during the holidays and when you've lost someone it's super hard. But until you really lost someone close to you during the holidays you don't understand that. It was so eye-opening. I almost didn't even want to. The first, everything was difficult. The first Fourth of July was difficult. I didn't even want to. The first, everything was difficult. The first Fourth of July was difficult. I didn't even want to be in my home. I went and disappeared for the holiday. And then the first Christmas, the first Thanksgiving, the first birthday, those are all right there for me and I can remember really wanting to retreat. But I had kids. I mean grandkids, kids, kids. I mean I was still an empty nester.

Elly: 2:30

This was nine years ago. This will be my ninth birthday, my ninth, and that's kind of how. This is my ninth birthday since I lost my mom. This is my ninth Thanksgiving, my ninth Christmas since I lost my mom. This is my ninth Thanksgiving, my ninth Christmas since I lost my mom, and you know I've lost other people in my life. That just really that. You know my father passed away when I was super young. I was a teenager, but losing my mom was that was rough. It was almost like it was an orphan at this point, and so I really had to, because everybody tells you oh honey, she's in a better place, she's still not with me though.

Elly: 3:10

Exactly, Exactly. But you know, it was almost like I was being shamed for grieving the loss of my mother. It was almost like I didn't have faith in God because I missed her. And I, you know, I know that my faith is strong and I know where she is, but she's not with me and that was what I was missing. I was grieving her being with me and a lot of it was grieving the time that I wish I would have spent with her.

Isa: 3:43

Yes, and I was going to get to that Sometimes. Sometimes you might be grieving somebody that wasn't even good in your life. I'm not saying that's the only situation, but it could be somebody that departed in a season where you don't feel like you had closed ends or you hadn't made amends.

Isa: 4:00

That sometimes can be even more painful, like in a strange parent or in a strange child, and that you not only feel the grief and the loss of them, but of what could have been, of what should have been. Yeah, that's a lot to process when everybody's talking about family and running together yeah, and if you have core memories with them, that's harder, harder.

Isa: 4:21

You know memories around the holidays, sitting around the table, christmas morning, thanksgiving, eating dinner and meals, and it's gonna come up again. We said this in the previous episode. You might want to suppress it, you might want to stand on like. I know she's with Jesus, I know that she's in a better place, but your body might miss her hug or his hug or their hug. You know, I miss that moment that you looked forward to every year of having with this person, or didn't even acknowledge or realize it was something you looked forward to. But now that you don't have it, you remember it and you remember it with loss.

Isa: 5:01

I feel like we forget that we can have a funeral part with somebody, kind of like just feel like we're okay, but we forget that certain things are going to remember or make us remember that person and we're going to have to grieve them all over again, and it might be things that come far and few between. It might be a scent in a room, it might be a meal. It's been years you haven't thought about it other than good memories and discussing it with family. But one day you sit down to eat a dish you haven't eaten in a long time and all of this stuff floods from from that memory and you get to grieve again.

Elly: 5:36

It's okay yeah, yeah, it really is. So I have uh come up with six tips um you know I like giving tips. So six tips to navigate grief during this season, and the first one is to really allow yourself to grieve and I know it sounds kind of counterintuitive, but really allow yourself to grieve, allow yourself to be in the moment and seek God's comfort.

Isa: 6:00

Yeah, it's okay. It's okay to be sad and if anybody comes at you with a Bible to hit you with it, be like yes, there is a time to grieve, there is a time to grieve, there is a time to sorrow, there is a time for tears, and this is my time like this is my time for that.

Isa: 6:14

There's also jesus wept and jesus went on his own to heal when john the baptist was decapitated and he, like he's jesus and he knows exactly where these people are and he has the power to resurrect and the power to. But you still can miss what people brought into your life. Here, like we'll meet in heaven, yes, and I'm looking forward to seeing my mother in heaven and I'm looking forward to to seeing all the people that I have lost throughout my life. That means something to me and giving them a hug and spending that season and that time with them. But there's still a loss here.

Isa: 6:51

There are still moments where I wish I could call my mom and tell her, I'm going through something and have their comfort and have their advice and just hear their laughter and and that is okay to miss because it's not here and you are that's something we need to really be okay with not being okay and allowing people to not be okay and still be in our presence and be able to express that.

Elly: 7:18

Morning truly is part of healing. You can try to skip it, but if you don't deal with life, eventually it's going to deal with you. Yeah, it's that pressure cooker. Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. Uh, the next tip is really lean on your faith community for support. If you don't have a faith community, if that's not, you know, kind of just lean on people that would naturally support you. Um, you know, I have a small bible study group that meets in my home, uh, and those are my people. I mean, those are like my brothers and my sisters, and those are people that I would first lean on. And, of course, I lean on God first. I'm already seeking his comfort in everything I do, but really leaning on people that will support me without shaming me, yeah, and that's very interesting that she says that, and I know it's going to look like a deviation, but it isn't.

Isa: 8:15

She just triggered a memory in me. I've always been like I lean on God, I'm going to lean on God. I just have to trust in God, right, and God sends people. God sends people into our life and then if we're not open to being able to share each other's burdens, obviously with the right people, yes, you have to be wise and use discernment on who you share yourself with.

Isa: 8:36

Absolutely no doubt about it. It might take you years to find the person. But if you don't try, if you don't open up, if you don't share life with people, if you don't share the grief, the joy and the sadness with people, you will never know who are the people that are equipped to come to you. And I experienced this recently, where I'm praying for support in a particular way and I'm praying for God in a particular way. I know God is there, I know he hears me and there's a comfort to that.

Isa: 9:03

But there is a longing as people that we need other people to connect with. But then all of a sudden is like I'm'm isolating myself, I'm not allowing people to love on me because I'm not making myself available to that and God is trying so hard. He's like I already talked to like five people, isa they're just waiting to see you be like where are you? And waiting for you to say yes. And then, if somebody reached out in the right way, of course God knew I needed to be reached out in that particular way, but I'm just saying it's going to come through people and it's going to come by you being vulnerable and open to people about it.

Elly: 9:44

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. One of the things that God would send to me is we had this lady in our church and she would come and give me the hugs I used to call them like my mom hugs and it felt literally like God put my mother and I know God didn't do this right, but it's almost like God put my mother in her to give me that hug that she would be giving me, and it was so comforting for me and something that I really needed and he will send people to not only comfort you but to share your burdens with you.

Elly: 10:21

But you know, again, like you said I said, really be in discerning of whether or not these people can be trusted. But you know, and that's almost where sometimes forgiveness has to come in place, because not everyone is a safe person and, um, you know, just really understanding who's safe, who isn't safe, and really leaning on them for support and, um, you know, kind of working through allowing yourself to work through the grief yeah, and also understanding that not like we spoke in other episodes not everybody's equipped to carry certain burdens.

Isa: 10:56

They have their own trauma, their own triggers. Just just be discern, discernful, but also trust the process. Share. Share how you're feeling and if you right away feel like people can't even handle that you're feeling a certain way, you know that's not for them. Don't take it personal, don't hold it against them. Be grateful for their friendships and the parts that they do, you know. Compliment you and then move on to somebody it could be potentially almost strangers that understand you better. That's where therapy comes in and can be very helpful to even identifying healthy relationships that can help you cope.

Elly: 11:30

Absolutely. So next is creating new traditions that reflect hope and healing. You know, I have traditions that I've put in place that remind me of my mother, whether it's wearing her necklace when I'm feeling really disconnected from her, just really needing that extra boost. I wore this on my very first speaking engagement because I was nervous as I get out. But you know, being close to her, I know she's not in this necklace, it's just a symbol of her love for me and so that's very helpful for me. What are some traditions?

Isa: 12:06

that you might have For me, honestly, is meditating. I lost my mom when I was very young, so I don't have a ton of memories to go back to, but just meditating on who she was, who people tell me she was as a woman, and just honestly, kind of speaking to God, almost like can you send this message to my mother?

Isa: 12:27

You know I have done that God almost like can you send this message to my mother? You know I have done that. I have like I know that God is listening to me and I know that she was a believer and died a believer and then I know that I'll see her again in heaven. So it's like I just kind of send that and I do get comfort back. And then I start thinking or God redirects my attention to my own children. Like you know, you may not have your mother, but you have your, your children maybe. Be that for them it's going to be different for everybody. For me, I really have to reflect. I have to go inward because I don't have a lot of tangible things, a lot of core memories with her. I do have some very strong memories and her brushing my hair, of her cooking in the kitchen, just like. It's more like scenes. I don't know the sound of her voice, I don't remember things like that. So I was three years old when she passed away.

Isa: 13:15

But I do have some very strong memories and I have people's anecdotes of my mother and, and I can tie those in together and just just hope that in some way I get answers from that just her character.

Elly: 13:27

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the next thing is really practicing daily gratitude and reflection. It's really, you know what are some of the things that you can be grateful for, whether or not it's the, I'm grateful for the fact that I had an another for as long as I did. I'm grateful that that. Not that I, I mean. You know we don't cause people to accept Christ. You know we don't. But the Holy Spirit does that. But my life was enough of an example for her to bring her to Christ. And when she died, she died a believer and strong in faith. Strong in faith, if I could be, if I could have half the faith that she had, in the end she would be. When people would come and pray for her in the hospital. No, don't pray for me, I know. I know my, I'm good. I want you to pray for my kids.

Elly: 14:20

I want you to pray that this isn't that me going, isn't going to devastate them. Those are the kind of prayers that my mother had. I mean to be like that was you know, and so I'm so grateful for the fact that I was able to be there with her in the end and I was able to witness this as she witnessed some things for me.

Isa: 14:42

Yeah, yeah, and that's yeah, like that missing. It kind of reminds me when you're going through life and you get those shoulder taps, like maybe Ellie comes to my forefront of my mind while I'm driving To me, I always take that as like a prompt from the Holy Spirit to either pray or reach out right Pray for that person, or reach out and just pray, just trust that their person's in my mind for a particular reason. And then I need to either pray or text or call, or both right. And I see when we come and we think of people we've lost, I think we should do the same thing. I think we should pray. Obviously we can't reach out physically, but maybe do something related that brings us closer to that person, because obviously the need is ours.

Elly: 15:30

Not theirs in that case?

Isa: 15:32

So it's like let me pray for myself, or this missing. Why am I thinking about her? Is there something that I should remember, that they taught me that might apply to my season that I'm going in and just kind of like meditate in that person as if they were alive and you could reach out, right.

Isa: 15:51

But you know, just reach out to those memories, the good, something you had to process.

Isa: 15:55

Maybe it has to do with an estranged person that you lost, that you are regretting not going through things, and they're coming into your mind and, instead of falling into shame or or destructive grief, I'm going to call it destructive grief, because grief is important, but destructive, the one that makes you feel like you shouldn't go on in life, like there's nothing more to it, because there's some toxic ways of dealing with death and loss, and so maybe it's something you get to process in that moment and be, you know, like I'm here for a reason. Maybe I need to honor their memory a certain kind of way. What would it have said? What about the people around me that, instead of me focusing on this person that is gone and I can't make amends with who is alive today, that I have relationships to mend and put your energy and your focus on that? I'm saying blanket statements. You would know in your heart what is happening and trust that, but I'm just giving people ideas on how to see the memory of a lost one differently.

Isa: 16:57

You can choose how you see that memory coming up to you.

Elly: 16:58

One of the most powerful things that we can do is, if we've lost someone, we can still pour out our thoughts in written form or even in audio text. I've heard of people that would send their text to their parent or their loved one, their child. Listen to old voicemails, absolutely. Read old letters Absolutely, absolutely. I have a video of my mother that I play back sometimes, of her making biscuits and gravy.

Elly: 17:33

And so I like to play that back. Sometimes I have a poem that she wrote that I like to listen to. I've tried rewriting not rewriting the point but writing a response to that point and I can only get so far. She you know, I guess my writing is for books.

Isa: 17:52

We're the pros, she's the poet, yeah.

Elly: 17:56

You know I will get there eventually. It will be in one of my next books. I am going to put that point in there because I will get it written one day. I know that. But you know, even with my father when he passed away, there was not necessarily estrangement, but there was a lot of things I wish I could have said to him, and I didn't even know he had passed away. There was a whole you know family drama about that, but several years ago I would say probably 10 years ago I had maybe a little longer.

Elly: 18:26

I had the opportunity to go to Florida and visit his grave and to really, you know, I put flowers on his grave. I not talk to him, I know he wasn't in the grave, you know, I know where he is and I could have done that from anywhere, but there was just something symbolic about just being there. In the Bible they, they made these markers right and they honored people and they honored God they're memorials Right, absolutely.

Elly: 18:52

And so I was able to do that at my father's grave and really have that conversation with him, and it healed some things in me. I mean he's dead, I mean he doesn't have any need for that, but I needed that. I needed that to process the things that I was going through, and this is really about processing that grief. You know allowing yourself to heal, creating new traditions. You know finding hope and healing and practicing gratitude yeah, yeah absolutely so.

Elly: 19:26

now we're going to talk about setting boundaries Again, that self-care, setting boundaries for healing. You know it's okay to say no. No is a complete sentence.

Isa: 19:39

Yeah it is no, no Capital, n little o period, absolutely.

Elly: 19:45

Absolutely, and then you'll be done. You know, can you come over to my house and babysit my kids tonight?

Isa: 19:52

No, and this is what a rambling sentence would look like. So you said no, which is a complete sentence, and that in itself should be enough. Sometimes we feel like we have to justify ourselves. It's like no right now, and we go into this litany of things that actually makes us feel worse because now we're over sharing sometimes or or feeling like somehow we're wrong and we talk ourselves into. Okay, maybe I'll go for a little bit. When it was no, it was no, thank you or no, or you know no, and that's okay.

Elly: 20:26

So isa could ask me to. She wouldn't, because you know I don't do kids yeah.

Isa: 20:32

That's not true. I have all five of my kids today. Thank you, Eileen Bye.

Elly: 20:39

If she asked me to watch her children and I said no and then I said, well, I've got this really important thing I have to do over here.

Isa: 20:47

It sounds like in the future it could be a yes, because it's just this important thing, absolutely, or?

Elly: 20:53

it sounds like, well, this thing over here is more important than I am, and I thought we were friends. Correct, it's just no. Maybe it's not say no because I'm choosing me and I know that my sanity is not going to do well with five children. Now maybe I might want to. There are times that I can say no, I'm uh, for right now.

Elly: 21:12

For right now or I would know I could, uh, I could babysit one or two, but all five is just not where I'm at. So not related kind of sort of it is.

Isa: 21:24

It is related, I think it's a great example, because that's where our emotional maturity comes into place. She can absolutely say no, right, and this is a work that she's done, that she knows she can do that and she can say that. Then there's the dynamic of we have a relationship where she knows she can say no to me and there won't be any emotional like I understand Actually it's. Furthermore, I wouldn't ask her because I know she's in a different season of her life. It would have to be a really big emergency and I would have had to gone down my phone through a tree of people that I know have children my age right now that can handle it.

Isa: 22:00

You know, like I'm just going to say it, I would go to Betty. That's normally. She comes to me, I go to her, you know, because we both have five children. We have children about the same age, they can play with each other and we understand the dynamics of all the kids running around. So that would be the kind of like the order. I would go to ellie because absolutely everybody's just in crisis right now and she's the only human being, and not because I don't trust her, but because she I know she's in a different season and I would have to present it that way. Like Ellie, it'll be for like 15 minutes, but I can't leave them alone. I have to go to the hospital. It would have to be something.

Elly: 22:36

Yeah, and I would keep them.

Isa: 22:38

Yeah, and it would be like actually you don't even have to have them, they're home, just check on them every five minutes, because I do have older teens. So it would be something more along those lines and that's OK, and it's OK for you to give grace and respect your friends. Boundaries that's where I come in, and there's a boundary that I'm respecting and there's a boundary she's making known by no, and this is a season that I'm in and it's a no, and I don't have to resent her, I don't have to change my relationship with her, I just know now, okay, when it comes to children, she has to be a last resort because of the season she's in, and you can even assess that before she even told me. I understand that. You know I'm not going to be our pastors.

Isa: 23:23

We have friendships that we decide automatically sometimes unduly that because we have a great relationship in one area, that we get to just kind of like put all these other parts of our lives that aren't related into another person. And you have to use discernment and really be open in your relationships so that both they know what season of life you're in and you know what season of life they're in. I do believe there's a level of disrespect when we decide that because you're my friend, you have to say yes to me all the time. Oh, absolutely, and there's a level of maybe you're not actually my friend if you believe I have to say yes all the time, yeah, so anybody who knows me knows how much I love pottery.

Elly: 24:06

And I love to share my passion about pottery with my friends. Now I have a best friend who will do just about anything I ask. I mean honestly. Jacinta will do just about anything I ask her to do and she has told me pottery is just going to have to be yours.

Isa: 24:25

Ellie, that's honestly.

Elly: 24:28

She's like I love you, but that's where I draw the line. That's my nose.

Isa: 24:32

That's my five kids. Yes, absolutely.

Elly: 24:36

That's not to say on my birthday. She went and did pottery with me because it was my birthday.

Isa: 24:40

Now for her birthday, we're not doing pottery.

Elly: 24:43

I promise you we're not doing pottery Now. She will accept a pottery gift, but she's not going to make it herself. No, she's not. She doesn't want to get her hands dirty, and that's okay. I mean not like she'd get her hands dirty, but with mud.

Isa: 24:57

Not with the mud.

Elly: 25:01

It's just not her cup of tea. I get it and we really have to know ourselves in order to say, no, that's that's not, that's not my cup of tea. And there are things that she does that's not my cup of tea. You know, that's okay.

Isa: 25:15

You're like I love that for you. I'll be rooting for you, yeah, absolutely.

Elly: 25:20

Absolutely. But you know, I think, as Christians, we think that if we say no to somebody, like let's say we have a family that's in need and they need somebody to help move them. I could try to move them and I look fairly healthy right.

Elly: 25:38

But I have chronic pain in my shoulders and I have, you know, and I'm not claiming them Y'all, I know because it's just the reality, right, but it is. The reality is is that's just not within, that's just not in my capacity to do, and it's OK. It's OK if I can't be at the church. Let's say 24, seven, yeah, you know, we can set boundaries to take care of ourselves, because in the Bible even Jesus withdrew to take care of himself, so then he can go perform miracles.

Isa: 26:10

You have to be able to fill yourself and also pour from a place you have. Yes, you cannot pour from something you haven't been gifted for. You haven't been Because what happens is and this is something I fall prey to, because I want to be helpful, because- I do have a serving spirit, I know I have that, but that doesn't necessarily mean I say yes to everything that is service and I could even be capable.

Isa: 26:35

let me take it further. She's talking about physical and ability to carry. I could be completely, fully capable of hauling your furniture and I can still say no and I can still be in a right position because I have to say no to good things in order to be available for my things. When I say my things, I'm not talking in a selfish only perspective, which is there's a place for that, but I'm talking about the things that I'm called to do, because I could be saying yes to helping you move, but I have all this task list that I am committed, anointed, tasked to do, that I ignore because I don't want to say no to you, because I don't want to hurt your feelings. I'm not being honest to you, to myself, and then I leave from helping you still unfulfilled because I abandoned something that was something I was called to do. And that happens in life, with relationships and when we're not feeling full and we're not feeling in a particular way.

Isa: 27:32

we say yes to things, sometimes to distract ourselves, but we're hurting people because we're not fully there but, we're hurting people because we're not fully there and we're hurting ourselves because we're not allowing ourselves to be refreshed.

Isa: 27:43

Replenish refill so that we're more effective in our pouring and I think that's what we're trying to go. I know we kind of it looks like we went away from brief, but it's just a matter of be able to say no and that be enough explanation. Build relationships in which people understand that your no is still well-intentioned, right, that you still care. Build that kind of relationship so you don't feel like you have to justify every no. You don't just like you don't have to justify every yes. Hardly ever do we say yes and why we're saying yes. Right, yeah. But we tend to over explain our no's and it's like it's guilt, it's shame, it's all these things and you have to acknowledge that.

Isa: 28:26

Now. I'm not saying you can't tell my friend. I feel like if you are willing to be available in the future, honestly and truly, maybe there's an explanation. Not today, but how do you think if tomorrow, if you want to do it tomorrow, I'll be able to help you? I feel like that's a reasonable no and some extra stuff. But if the answer is no, whether it's today, tomorrow or after tomorrow, it's just no. Yeah, sorry, I don't do that. It's fine, you don't even have to say sorry, I don't do that.

Isa: 28:50

I think there's a part of me that still feels like I need to give you an explanation yeah, but in reality, it's just no and and we need to build relationships and build boundaries in which we're comfortable with that and that we built enough rapport with people to know if I'm saying no, it's because it's no, because I am there for you in other ways. I'm just not about that life.

Elly: 29:17

Okay, last one Anchor yourself in the hope of eternal life. Um, you know, when my mother passed away and I was so blessed to be able to be in the room with her some people may think that's a little gory and that's okay, but just where she was I felt like I was able to almost like, uh, someone had sent me a poem beforehand and it was just just so beautiful.

Isa: 29:39

But it was almost like.

Elly: 29:40

I could see Jesus taking her hand in his or you know y'all taking her hand and putting it in his. It was almost like there was a passing off and so I take so much comfort in the fact that I know where she is.

Elly: 29:56

And you know, that's where the anchoring myself in the hope of the eternal. You know, I know where she is. I know she's dancing with Jesus and if she were to be given the choice to be here or there, she would choose there. You know, walk throughout this life and fulfill the purpose that you're here to fulfill, but when it's time to go home, know that you have an eternal life. That's not here.

Isa: 30:23

Yeah and rest in that and know that. You know we're at peace. There's nothing. It's kind of like that. There's nothing you can do about the future or the past, when it comes to life and death.

Isa: 30:34

There's nothing we can do other than try to be present with people while they're here and then just hold on to what we got from our relationships while they're gone and know that there is there is hope and there is a future. And what you want to do is work on people while they're here so that we recognize each other in heaven and we get to see and hug each other in this other place and it's almost like you have this connection with a person that's in another dimension.

Isa: 31:08

You can look at it that way, like I just yes, she's not here and I'm sad because I want to laugh, I want to hear her laugh. Man, I just want to eat chips with them. I don't know, it's little things sometimes that trigger that that really deep feeling of loss. At least for me, it's like I'm missing out on a moment that seems not important with the people that I'm in life with, because I do that every day.

Isa: 31:33

But I could just give anything to just sit and eat a bowl of ice cream with you right now, but we can have that to really cement us and let's enjoy what we have now and know that there's a hope for the future that we'll enjoy more than ice cream.

Elly: 31:46

Enjoy the presence of God. That's amazing. Yeah, well, issa, I think we covered this pretty well. You know, just really, guys, just do you what's that? Do you boo? Yeah, but you know, it's okay, it's okay to grieve, it is. It's okay to honor the loved ones that you've lost, it's okay to make new traditions, it's okay, you know, and you don't have to please everybody else. I mean, don't be rude and don't be ugly, yeah nobody you know we're responsible for our own behavior.

Elly: 32:26

We're not responsible for other people. They don't. You know we just take care of us. You know, do the things to take care of yourself. You know it's okay to miss your loved one. It's okay to grieve them. It's okay to set a place at the table. If you want to set a place at the table, um, I encourage you not to try to like disappear um isolation, yeah, yeah it's not healthy.

Elly: 32:51

Um, I understand that sometimes I mean jesus withdrew so there are times that you know, isolation is called for short periods of time yes, we talked about it this way, we didn't.

Isa: 33:01

We say it's not isolation, it's oh my gosh, I wish I remembered. I'll probably put it in the comments when we post it, but there's like a very similar word and it's not isolation. It's kind of like separation to heal, like to grow. It's almost like um, you know, the word holy means separate, right? So it's kind of like finding a place where you can get wholeness. And I won't think of the word, but yes, there's a difference between avoidance, I guess isolation, and then isolation for preparation.

Isa: 33:30

I guess we can call it preparing yourself to face what's coming Sometimes requires solitude. Yes, there's the word. Okay, so there's solitude and there's isolation. Right, solitude is what Jesus sought out. Solitude with God, solitude with healing, solitude with himself. Isolation is what we do to avoid dealing with our emotions, even interacting with other people in what we're in pain. And it's a normal reaction, but again we got to choose solitude over isolation. Solitude I remember.

Elly: 34:05

Yay, yes, All right guys, just a quick reminder. If you haven't got my book, it is. You can find it at wwwEllenO'BrienCounselingcom. It is a better way integrating faith and psychology Excuse me, I have a frog in my throat but integrating faith and psychology to Heal Inner Wounds. So go out, grab the book, look at the offerings that we have. I've got a companion guide with it and we're always doing things. I have blogs, we have other podcasts, I'm doing the Shame Free Sundays. I don't know how long I'm going to do it, so we'll see. And you know, kind of we're just doing all the things. We're just out there living life and trying to do the best that we can.

Isa: 34:46

Yeah, we want people to hear that you can work on your mental health and be a believer yeah, absolutely. That you can be broken in a work in progress, that you can have grief in the holidays.

Isa: 34:57

That you can have joy in the middle of the storm, that you can also have sorrow in the middle of a party, and that that doesn't disqualify you from seeking healing, from seeking community, from finding a better way to connect with your faith and to connect with other people. And we are just doing this as an act of love. We hope you guys share it and that it reaches as many people as it can and it helps people heal and walk their journey. I kind of want to try something fun before we say goodbye, just because Thanksgiving is going to be around the corner, and I just want people that have seen it just to comment what they're making for Thanksgiving.

Isa: 35:36

So, like everybody has different traditions I know you said Christmas Eve you do a traditional Italian meal. I'm just curious who does turkey? Who does ham? Who does both? Who does you know? What do you guys prepare for Thanksgiving? And Taco Bell is perfectly acceptable. No judgment, whatever it is that you do, you may not even celebrate it. Feel free to share that and be like it's just a Thursday, that's perfectly fine. Just a Thursday, that's perfectly fine. I just wasn't interested in hearing that, because we talk about new traditions, you might be giving somebody an idea on how to transform a holiday into something different. They might want to try one of your traditions and see if it works for them, so share your traditions.

Elly: 36:12

I'll be sharing mine, all right, well, we will see you guys next month. Bye bye, isa, and I would like to thank you for watching this episode of A Better Way. Isa has challenged us to share our favorite holiday traditions, so please share yours below. Thank you for watching. All right, bye-bye.