Isa: 0:00

Welcome to A Better Way to Heal, where faith meets therapy. With Ellie and Issa Together, we are bridging the gap between emotional health and spiritual growth, guiding you from simply surviving to thriving.

Elly: 0:13

Welcome everyone. I'm Issa and I'm Ellie and we are in our brand new named podcast. Yes, we have decided to change the name. A Better Way to Podcast kind of left a lot of things to the imagination, so we changed it. We changed the name of the podcast to A Better Way to Heal, when Faith Meets Therapy, which is truly what we do. Exactly. We wanted somebody to bump into the title and say, okay, this is something I might need instead of, ah, better way, better way to what? Crying, panting, doing great here. A whole lot left to the imagination, so a new year.

Elly: 0:50

We're just really wanting to do things with more purpose and more intentionality. Mindfulness, mindfulness Y'all know me. Asa knows me, knows how much I love being mindful. Mindfulness really is God's gift to us, it's our present. Y'all know me. Issa knows me, knows how much I love being mindful. Yes, because mindfulness really is God's gift to us. It's our present, it's today. Yeah, it is All right, absolutely. What are we discussing today? So today we're going to start off this year really talking about the intersectionality of faith and psychology.

Elly: 1:22

We want to start the year off right. We really are digging into what has the faith and what is the psychological world, what have we gotten wrong and what have we gotten right and how can we do it better? Yeah, exactly, I feel like this episode is going to take us back to the roots, to the why we even started, which was essentially letting everybody know in the church world that therapy is that can use, and letting everybody know in the secular world that prayer and faith do work. Absolutely, absolutely. We and I for me, I really believe I've had so many clients come to me and I really believe that therapists really need to understand how to lean into their clients' spirituality and their faith and the same thing in the church world.

Elly: 2:12

I've had so many people say but how do I do that?

Elly: 2:15

And we're going to talk about that all about that in this episode, so Super excited, okay. Well, we're going to pick on the psychological world, the secular world, first, and since I'm now that that little area, we're going to talk a little bit about. What is some of the things that we see in the therapeutic world? Some of that and if I were in Toastmasters right now I'd be getting into all kinds of trouble with the uns A lot of the things that we do in the psychological world is we focus on therapeutic, evidence-based therapeutic tools, things like cognitive behavioral therapy, mindfulness, emdr, all kinds of different therapeutic techniques, but we don't really pay attention to the whole person. Not that we don't pay attention to the whole person because we do psychosocial assessments and we do try to connect to all parts of the person, but we want to handle the cognitive frame and, like, set the spiritual part to the side.

Elly: 3:27

It's like we don't consider that on a day-to-day basis, and it could be potentially because there's so many diverse faiths and therapy, you know, is focused on the person, while faith can vary, you know, for instance, ours is leaning towards Christianity because we're both Christians and that's kind of like our approach, but I'm sure there's clients that come with other faith-based beliefs. Now, focusing in on Christianity, we can go to the point that we're a trinity. Right that Jesus, father, son, holy Spirit. They're a trinity. There's a physical aspect, there's a spiritual aspect and then there's this wisdom, mental aspect about God. Absolutely, we're not any different. We're created in his image, which means there's a physical aspect to us that needs physical therapy.

Isa: 4:14

Yeah, that's a different topic.

Elly: 4:17

And then there's a mental aspect that that's where therapy comes. How?

Elly: 4:20

do we essentially understand why we're thinking the things we're thinking, and then there's a spiritual aspect that should and kind of control all of that um, and that's where this podcast and purple and birth concentration is comes in and that sound.

Elly: 4:38

That is just a message. But so, yes, when you have I guess I want to hear in your aspect, when you have a, a client that comes from a church background, what is the main complaint that you get when they're like I try to go to my church, I try to go to my pastor, I try to go to my sister, brother in christ, what is your main? So one of the things that, uh, what I will often hear from a client is I keep picking it back up. They will go to therapy and they're told in care of it and leave it at the altar, and then they're told in the therapeutic world, personal responsibility, and that they're relying too much on their very foundation, which is the prayer and the Bible study. And so I've even had clients come to me and say that they felt like their faith was dismissed in the therapy room and they felt like therapy was dismissed by their pastor, by their family, by their mother, you know whoever. So we struggle with meeting the whole person. Yeah, so this is like on my aspect where I feel like, as Christians, we get it wrong sometimes with our fellow brothers and sisters that are going through a mental health crisis, and when I call crisis, it doesn't have to be the big tease those exist and you'll hear more about that in the podcast and in the book itself and we've talked about the big teams yes, but there's

Elly: 6:19

also everyday anxieties that could be bleeding out from those big teas, or it could just be a moment, and sometimes all we have is a response. It's like you're not praying enough or you're not doing this enough. The Bible is filled with prophets going through anxious moments Like let's just read Jeremiah. Jeremiah me doesn't so want, and he had a great relationship with God. And he had a great relationship with God and I say this is a joke, but in reality he has a whole book about lamenting and being essentially grieving and depressing. Guess what he? God gave him a space to grieve and and to be sorrowful, absolutely even though he knew God was going to give him the victory at some point, he was still sad for the loss of Israel's favor with God.

Elly: 7:07

So what does that tell us? There is a room for us to mourn and to grieve, and it's not just people that have died, it could be relationships, it could be lifestyles. You can want to get out of a lifestyle and still grieve what didn't happen with your expectations. So the Bible's filled with. We make plans, we make intentions known and God does guide us through it. So that requires us to do both things, to have the tools right. I can build a barn, and if I don't go to a hardware store to get the materials, it doesn't matter how much. Guess what? There's a labor part of that dream.

Elly: 7:48

Yes, it started as a dream, it starts as a prayer, but then there's a part of the faith that requires action. Faith without works, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So I could want to build that barn and I can pray about it and I can wish it to be there, but it's not going to be there unless I take action steps. And that's what we often see. And one of my favorite Bible characters is Elijah.

Isa: 8:13

And.

Elly: 8:13

Elijah. He had this great big victory, he beat all these prophets. And then he finds out Jezebel is after him and he runs and hides. And so we think, but I should be able to overcome this. And so I mean, jesus sweat blood. I mean I don't think you just sweat blood, you know it's. That was he. He was earnestly seeking God and he was in distress. And we we, we look over these things and we forget that other people have had anxieties and depressions and had trauma and things that they've had to overcome, and so we minimize our pain and we allow others to minimize our pain. And how do we get this right? This is an idea, this is something we've bounced out, so we know what the mistakes we make, the platitudes.

Elly: 9:11

Absolutely worry about it you're not tithing all this like blame on the spiritual aspect, when they're bleeding out of wounds that are spiritual and mental but that need more. They need your companionship. Sometimes a good year, um, what does that mean? Not everybody in the church is equipped to sit there. Obviously we carry our own traumas and, to be honest, it's actually a healing balm. You can tell this person. Well, it sounds like you need more help than what I can provide. I'm going to pray for you, but also I recommend that you seek help, professional help.

Isa: 9:47

And.

Elly: 9:47

I'll be here with you to sit and see what you've learned and maybe learn from you. That is, that is a relationship that's honest, because god is not expecting us to solve other people's problems either, but we do carry each other's burdens. And what does that look like? Empathy?

Elly: 10:04

looks like sitting and listening to you no, I don't know how it feels your, your injury, right now, but I can have compassion that you have that injury and then I am going to accommodate you, not hug you too tight, not, you know. No, that's empathy, that is an understanding that, even though I'm not going through what you're going through and I may have handled a million different ways than you, that is not what you need, because guess what You're in it. And if I can't walk with you, then I need to guide you to who can walk with you, and that's perfectly fine. That's how it works for me.

Isa: 10:37

It doesn't substitute prayer.

Elly: 10:38

It doesn't substitute praying over them, but that is somewhat patronizing the way we do that, sometimes Absolutely.

Elly: 10:46

And then let's be honest. Sometimes we patronizing the way we do that, sometimes Absolutely. And then, let's be honest, sometimes we don't even actually pray. I'll pray for you, and then we get in the car and go to lunch. Let's be completely honest about that. One oh, absolutely. And then the other part of getting it right and correct me if I'm wrong is essentially being prepared for yourself. We study the Word of God. Let's study how that comes together into practical ways, because Jesus was practical. He taught parables and all these things in practical ways, which means we have practical tools to utilize Absolutely. So some of the things that we have started doing in the therapeutic world. Of course, there's this book, the book that we talk about often, one of the reasons why we even started doing this podcast. The book that we talk about often, one of the reasons why we even started doing this podcast. It's A Better Way. Integrating Faith and Psychology really is bringing God into the midst of this specific book. If I can get things spoken, out of my mouth.

Elly: 11:40

It really brings prayer and it brings the scripture into Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. We're going to dig into that. We've talked about it. We're also going to dig into it more in later episodes.

Elly: 11:53

But basically it says if I don't have certain things, I don't excel, I don't do my best, god, I mean, as I was looking at this, I could really see how God meets these needs that we have, and we don't even know what it's meaning. Don't even know. That's one thing. Another thing is that some of the things that therapy is getting right now is that there's a lot more integration of faith and more than what's in the book, there's also Christian centered a CT.

Elly: 12:24

A CT is acceptance of treatment. Therapy really talks about the things that we value. When I'm moving towards the things that I value, I tend to feel better.

Isa: 12:34

I mean, it sounds like common sense but we really don't.

Elly: 12:37

I say I believe, that I love, value my family, but then I work 80 hours a week. Do I really value my family if I'm working? 80 hours a week. Maybe I really value financial security because I have lack and we'll talk a lot about. Those things, and that's where they're becoming. Do we sit down with honesty? Do we all? Truly we should, but we don't Feel comfortable enough to sit with my brothers and sisters and talk about our shortcomings. That's part of it too, but you can do that with a therapist.

Elly: 13:08

It's a third party neutral place and they can ask you questions.

Isa: 13:11

Yeah.

Elly: 13:12

And therapists can see things that we don't because, we become nose blind too. I mean honestly. I mean y'all. I was having some things going on with my shoulder and I just got to the point where I was washing my hair upside down and thinking okay, I mean, it's just a part of life and that's not okay, Right, but we become nose blind to the things that are that are going on in our life.

Elly: 13:34

And a therapist can really help us see that and we then don't feel offended because it's not people we see every day in our regular life and what happens is sometimes we whether it's real stigma that's created because it's possible we're not going to be blind to that, right, whether it's real stigma that's created because it's possible, we're not going to be blind to that.

Elly: 13:49

Or we feel the shame when we're around those people that know certain things about us, so we're like I don't want them, they're going to think that because I'm struggling with this, then I'm no longer good at this other thing that I feel in the church, and that's a fear that keeps you from actually opening up, right.

Isa: 14:07

Whether it's valid or not is not the point.

Elly: 14:09

It's just a fear that can hold you back. Yeah, they'll think that I have sin in my life and I'm struggling in this area, especially if the only response you get is you're not praying or tithing enough or what are you doing? Exactly so. That's in the Bible. It is in the Bible, but you know the church is doing some things right.

Elly: 14:28

Yes, there are Absolutely. Like us, we're at the church. We had a conference last year and in the conference we brought this integration of faith with therapy and there was so much interest. People are hungry for it because in reality, it's kind of like a practical way of setting the step of what's already in the word. We talk about confessing our sins to one another. We talk about carrying each other's burden. This is just a practical way.

Elly: 14:54

Remember this was being spoken to people 2,000 years ago. It's just as true today, but does it translate well to our society? And this is a way of integrating that. We need more people speaking that, because this is like supply and demand too. If more Christians show up at a therapeutic office and say, this is great, but this is not meeting a particular need, this isn't meeting my spiritual side. Guess what happens to the industry? The industry improves, they adjust, they start seeing. Okay, this is what we're missing Absolutely, and there is no condemnation in this, because God wants us whole Absolutely. And, like I said, it's in the Bible. We've discussed it in another podcast, so I'm not going to go very deep.

Elly: 15:37

But there was a blind man out of many blind men that Jesus healed Some by just saying you are healed. You can see that this particular blind man had several steps to healing Physical manipulation of mud and spit in his eyes by Jesus, the great physician, by the way. Then he had to open his eyes and kind of practice with this new set of vision. And he didn't quite have the vision there yet. Then the process happened again and once he could see clearly, Jesus told him now leave the city and never come back. That means leave your environment. And there's a tie to it, because before Jesus healed him people were saying I wonder what kind of sin is in his life, that he's blind or his parents' life?

Elly: 16:20

That is an illustration always has been to me about psychology. I see so much behavioral corrections, one how people Well, that's your fault for doing drugs or whatever. And then you did this in your life. What did you do to provoke that reaction from your abuser? We do these things and that's exactly what happened to that one man. But Jesus had compassion and also gave him personal accountability. There is both. He had faith and said okay, now you need to do this. Okay, now you need to do this.

Elly: 16:53

And then once you do this, remove yourself from that environment. That's toxic, Absolutely yeah. So there are so many ways, there are so many things that we can do now that really integrate faith and psychology.

Elly: 17:05

So if you feel like you are in a space that you need therapy, so this is not therapeutic advice other than I mean as in I'm not your therapist, but I think that can be helpful for you is to really ask questions, seek a therapist that is open to understanding the things that matter to you, that will consider your faith when considering treatment and that you can do a consultation with. You can do it. Most therapists will allow a consultation, usually a 15-minute free consultation. So if you find yourself in a space where you need therapy, seek therapy.

Elly: 17:53

If you're a pastor or someone in the church and you're like I don't know too much about this therapy thing, talk to a therapist. We're not trying to replace God. Most of us aren't, I know, at least I'm not, not in my practice. I'm not trying to replace God, I'm trying to replace the Holy Spirit. Sometimes there's that fear, but that's not what this is. If you go to a doctor, you're going to pray that God will send you to the right doctor and you're going to do maybe some research, maybe research them online, maybe see what other people are saying about them, Ask questions you can ask questions.

Elly: 18:36

You can ask questions. You can ask questions of your therapist, all these things and see if you're getting the person that fits for you, because sometimes you might go through two or three, four therapists before you find one that will really work with you in your, in the season that you're in, the state that you're in, and that can really integrate, because it's integration. It's integration of the therapeutic aspect of it. They all have the same training, right, but how you holistically integrate that with your life will be based on relationship.

Elly: 19:09

And it's a different type of relationship, a professional therapy client relationship, but it's still a relationship that needs to be in unity and in agreement. Right like you have to agree that these steps will work for you and you're going to participate to agree that your spiritual aspect is important for you and I think that will take interviewing people like absolutely absolutely yeah, I mean I've had clients that that or potential clients that have interviewed me and I need somebody that's going to be in my face and direct and tell me and my husband what to do.

Elly: 19:43

Why not be married?

Elly: 19:43

I'm not a couple to be in there and I don't do in your. You need to figure it out, but I will lay down these tools for you to research and find out why you're here and how to get out of here. Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's healthier. I think that's what we all should be looking for, because that's even how god deals with us. Yeah, he doesn't force us to do any. He shows us this mirror, through the word of god, of what we're not doing, a particular way that can lead to these particular consequences, and then he gives us a way out. We have to choose the way out. We have to choose that doorway. Yeah, but he doesn't push us through the doorway.

Isa: 20:26

Absolutely, because then there's not a choice.

Elly: 20:27

Right part of the healing process is you have to choose and create these habits on your own so that, no matter where you are, what circumstance you are, you have the tools and you know how to use the tools and apply.

Elly: 20:38

Absolutely so I think. I think we've covered this pretty good and any introduction of what we're doing in this time, absolutely, absolutely so. This year I'm so excited. We've got some wonderful topics online. Next, next, uh, next month, we're going to talk about your favorite parts and my favorite parts. We're also going to be bringing in some other pieces to the podcast we're going to start If you know me, if you follow me online.

Elly: 21:05

You may know that I do the Shame Free Sundays. We're going to start bringing that into the podcast and just kind of drop the episodes that I've brought in. We're just going to bring them into the podcast and we're going to start writing in some guests. Yes, yes. I think we've done it. We've done it for a little bit, over a year and it would be great to hear how people are receiving the message.

Isa: 21:33

What else?

Elly: 21:33

they want to hear what else would be more helpful for us to put out there, and it will create that dynamic All perspectives it goes back to we have a particular set of perspectives, that we combine and integrate it for the benefit of our audience, but having another perspective can just make us better and grow A better way. Well, thank you guys for watching. We really appreciate you and we can't wait to see you on our next episode. See you next time. Alright, bye-bye.

Isa: 22:01

Thanks for joining us on A Better Way to Heal when Faith Meets Therapy. Don't forget to follow us for more insights and inspiration, and stay tuned. Next month we're diving into Ellie's and Issa's favorite parts of the book. See you then.