Elly: 0:01

Hello everybody and welcome to A Better Way to Heal, where faith meets therapy. Welcome to A Better Way to Heal. I'm Ellie and I'm Issa, and today we're going to be talking all about decoding trauma. We're going to look at what is big T trauma, what is little t trauma and what is this thing that I like to talk about developmental wins yes.

Isa: 0:27

So what would you consider like big t, right, it's like. Is that subjective? Because I think about? For me, big t is like witnessing a murder, right, that's big t. Um, obviously, sexual abuse of any kind is a big t, but what? Who decides what's a big T and a little T, right?

Elly: 0:47

well, often it's if I feel like I'm in fear of my life, the life of someone else. I mean imminent fear, not like somebody slapped a neighbor, you know that's. You know, this may maybe a little bit traumatic, but it's not what we would call a big T trauma. I don't know why slapped a neighbor came to mind, but that's what came to mind. But it's something like witnessing an accident, being in an accident, being at war, those kind of things, murder, witnessing a murder, you know these kind of things. Those are what we would call big T traumas.

Isa: 1:33

Mm-hmm. And then little t. Could it be essentially family relationships, right? That aren't just quite straight away, maybe like toxic environments where you had very strict living conditions. They weren't trusted. Are those potentially little T's?

Elly: 1:52

They absolutely are. What happens with little T traumas is over and over again. I don't have control over what's going on in my world, I don't have a sense of safety, I don't have a sense of security, and so things that people may say may come against my very identity. And this isn't just one time we can we can tend to recuperate from a one time wounding, but it's a chronic wounding, a chronic neglect, that we have found that neglect is one of the biggest causes of things like developmental traumas. We just didn't even realize how high the amounts of traumas are that are caused from developmental wounds, that are caused from neglect.

Elly: 2:41

Neglect causes a lot more issues than what we ever really originally thought about. We thought about big things like the childhood, sexual abuse, physical abuse, living in a home with an alcoholic. We see those as the those are the things that cause much longer chronic problems. But what we found is that even living in a home where the parents are so anxious or they have so much financial constraints that they're both working, they're not at home. Latchkey kids If you've heard that term, that was really big, I'm a latchkey kid. So these kinds of things actually cause as much trauma on the system and they affect our self-confidence, our self-worth, our sense of being stable, our attachment styles anxious, avoidant attachments, those kind of things kind of things.

Isa: 3:45

Yeah, okay, that's very interesting because I'm thinking of it through the biblical filter, right, and how kind of like God's plan and design for our lives is intended to not cause that lack of nurturing, that lack of comfort and family unit. Really, of course, we live in a sinful world and this isn't really a comment to attack any family that does things differently. But the original design for God was, you know, family, a husband and a wife and the children, so that there would be this balance the personality of the man and the woman and the child would get all the provision and the need they had to develop right. Not only that, there's specific things that the Bible mentions. For instance, men that don't provide for their household first are considered worse than an unbeliever. So this is not saying that you can't be out of a job for a season, but if you, this is to me personally, I interpret it as somebody that has the finances but chooses themselves before the family.

Isa: 4:42

For instance, addiction, gambling, using the money that should be providing before the family. For instance, addiction, gambling, using the money that should be providing for the family has nothing to do with luxury, has nothing to do with the newest fashion for the kids. It has to do with my dad's at work all day, my mom's at work all day, but when they buy they go to the liquor store before they go to the grocery store. When we go out, they're more preoccupied about what they're wearing then how we're doing so. I think that it's important to realize that God thought of that. I don't think we think about that enough and I think sometimes, as believers, we can be like well, I'm in ministry or I'm doing this and I'm providing, I'm working, so working is providing. No providing is providing. There could be somebody at home that's not working. They're still providing right.

Elly: 5:28

Well, I think it's a really good point. Uh, when we are, we are at in the office all the time and we're not spending. Other people are raising our children. First of all, we don't know how they came into the room. You know what did. What did they come in with? They came in with their own set of traumas and their own set of background that they are dealing with, and so now your child is not only exposed to the things that you've been through as a, as a child, and how you raise and parent your own children, then they're also being impacted by other people, and I mean, I'm not saying that that's a bad thing or a good thing. That actually can be.

Elly: 6:08

For some people, going to school is the safest place and that's where they really started learning how to develop a safe and secure attachment style versus the anxious or avoidant attachment style that maybe they may have had in the home. Again, not all of these are from abusive situations. They can just be simply neglect. Or, you know, if I was raised in a broken home, my mother was never there or my father was never there. I kind of grew up, you know, looking underneath the blanket to see where the next thing is coming. I'm afraid of my own shadow. My children are going to tend to be like that. I'm going to if I grew up that way. I'm going to be like that and my children are going to tend to be like that now it's not to say that there isn't some healing, but things tend to go like that.

Elly: 7:00

I mean, I hear of families that they are so private you can't even sneeze outdoors because people don't want. They just don't want anybody in and that's almost like that's generational, that's. That isn't something that just happened in one generation yeah, it didn't clear.

Isa: 7:25

It either became augmented or there's a deviation of it. You know like we'd like to believe there's black sheep of the family. I believe like black sheep of the family are people just rebelling against what's going on in that home environment. They're not necessarily rebelling against good things. Sometimes they're rebelling against good things. Sometimes they're rebelling against things that they feel as a toxic attack and as children they don't know how to kind of like manage it. Everybody copes differently and they're like I don't want anything to do with what's going on in my house. So I'm literally going to do the opposite of what they say, even if it's positive, because I mean, if this is what you believe and this is how you behave, and this is why therapy is so important, because it allows us to see ourselves how potentially other people see us. Right, because we're just living in this bubble and surviving and coping and and it kind of like trying to live in the world that we, how we think it looks, how we think it is, but other people that are observing have a different perspective and therapy allows you to kind of open that up. A third party can tell you. Well, I understand why you're doing this, but also could you see how it could be seen this way?

Isa: 8:40

The Bible talks about the renewing of your mind. It talks about that's what it means. It's like, obviously we do it through prayer, but there's more to it, like there's so many elements in scripture. You renew your mind by, yes, reading scripture, things that are essentially deprogramming the negative patterns you've and speeches you've put in your mind, right, but there's also fellowship that tells you go and be with other believers, ideally healed, and believers that are also working on renewing their mind.

Isa: 9:11

That doesn't always happen. That's why we're here, that's why the book. Sometimes we have to go to somebody that's dedicated their lives to healing in that way. But the design is perfect. We're just not perfect. The design of going to peers and elders and people like to just bring that out and said carry each other's burdens doesn't mean take the responsibility, be codependent, be an enabler. That's none of that. It's essentially you can talk to me, this is a safe place where you can speak and when you're ready, I might have something to pour into you. And that's really the dynamic and that's what therapy is. So, because we're all essentially in this broken state, combining scripture with the techniques that you learn in psychology can help us kind of like learn, relearn what god already designed to begin with yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Elly: 10:04

I think that, um, there's this thing that we talk about in the therapy world called. That says the body keeps the score, um, and a lot of times what I was just talking about and you know, in a lot of what you're talking about is that these things kind of live within us, um, generationally, they can live within us. We may find an anxious parent has the again, the anxious child, uh, the anxious person, uh, but a lot of times that's because, somatically, the kind of in the body there's thing, these things are stored and as we develop a level of healing, one of the things that helps us get to that is by really tuning into our bodies. How many times do we sit down and really think what am I thinking, what am I feeling, what you know, what's going on in my mind? We are on, usually on autopilot, and we're go, go, go, go, go, and then at the end of the day we drop and we've had all kinds of emotions but we've never connected.

Elly: 11:07

People that have had especially a history of sexual abuse but and also a history of physical abuse tend to disconnect from their body, and so if trauma is stored, the body keeps the score, and trauma is often stored at a cellular level inside the body that somebody who has suffered that type of a trauma is often disconnected from it.

Elly: 11:31

They may dissociate um that that may be while they kind of just coast in life, and what we want to do in any kind of healing is to really connect that. And that's, whether it's a big trauma or a little trauma, we still have those types of dissociation because usually what we're feeling and going through is so big I don't want to deal with this. I'll deal with this tomorrow. How many times we put it in a can, sit on the can I don't want to want to, you know. So we're not processing it. And if we can process that trauma automatically just by sitting and being aware of what I'm feeling, then I can get to a more of a level of awareness. Awareness has to happen before healing can happen yeah, absolutely.

Isa: 12:23

And then I'm thinking, as you know you're thinking about, you're explaining how our body holds and the memory and the information which I've read a book about that the body remembers. I think it's like that's the title of the book, but I'm thinking scripturally. We're asked to fast and meditate and be kind of like present. And when we pray and meditate and fast, it's essentially bringing our consciousness up to be aware of our body. When you fast, you're going to this place where you're feeling your hunger and you're supposed to then pray or seek wisdom, or it's essentially reprogramming your physical self to think about what you're feeling instead of just respond to what you're feeling. So when we're hungry we go eat, right, but we've made a decision. We're going to fast for X, y, z reason, but we're going to fast, and what that happens is whenever you become hungry, you then have to think about okay, I'm hungry, but I decided I am not going to eat, so let me meditate, let me pray. Ideally, that's how fasting should go. Let me read scripture. We can do the same thing by giving God a particular trauma, a particular thing we want to heal, and therapy can help you.

Isa: 13:36

We talked about journaling. Sometimes, when I'm fasting, I do write down Instead of reading. I go write down how I'm feeling, what I'm praying for, and I get answers. That way, it's kind of like food can be a comfort. Yes, we eat because we're hungry, but it can also be a comfort. Instead of us thinking during that time, we eat and then the desire to even think goes away, because our needs are met. That basic need is met, so we move on. Our needs are met, that basic need is met, so we move on. But when we're deciding to replace the meeting a physical need for a minute, for a period, it's not, and then we focus on why we are the way we are. We find healing in that. So that, to me, is another way. Scripture aligns with mindfulness about what you're feeling. Why is, why is hunger so strong in your life, like what other things lead to that you can utilize fasting for as a way of breaking down trauma too.

Elly: 14:31

Yeah, absolutely Well, you know, I love the fact that you bring up the mindfulness piece, issa, because when we're focused on the present moment and when we're living in that moment, whether or not we're fasting, whether or not we're meditating, or whether or not we're just mindfully eating, mindfully walking, all of these things connect us to not only the creator, but connects us to the present moment. I often talk about this being God's present to us because and if I can bring myself into present awareness the things that happened yesterday don't feel as big. The things that are might happen tomorrow don't feel as big because I'm connected and living, instead of bracing for something that might happen or it might not. 80% of the things that we worry about never happen 80% and that other 20%.

Isa: 15:33

sometimes we can prevent it by replacing worry with preparedness.

Elly: 15:37

Absolutely, absolutely. So really being mindful is one of the developing an awareness, and we often do that through being mindful, but developing an awareness, what is it that I've been through that could be traumatic, that could be causing me to be stuck in these places? Where do I feel that in my body? My clients probably sick and tired of hearing that one. Where do you feel that you know one? Where do you feel that you know? Where do you notice that in your body? I don't know. I mean even think about where I'm hungry. Where is that in your body? Just just everybody go home, practice that. Where do I feel that in my body? What does it feel like? What does it look like? Can I touch it? You know it seems woo-woo-ish, but it really is connecting as mind, body, spirit.

Isa: 16:27

Yeah, yeah and you know, while you were speaking and I was listening, I wanted to make like a note. I just kind of felt that in my spirit, what ellie and I are saying does not include. We were saying like 80 of what you worry about doesn't happen, that other 20% can be prevented. I want to make a caveat this does not include you being abused, murdered, like things that are out of your control do exist. I don't want to play that and make that light. You know something light it isn't light. There is evil and darkness out there that can come to you out of nowhere.

Isa: 17:03

Um, I think sometimes this falls and I'm not I know for a fact that's not what ellie was doing and I know that's not what I was doing, but that's how we, sometimes the church, can fall into victim blaming or into, um, because you, there's nothing that you do that makes you responsible for rape, especially if you're a child, like it doesn't matter that you looked cute in that outfit, it doesn't matter. That's personal responsibility to the person coming after you when you don't want to or when you are not capable of consenting. So I just wanted to put that out there, um, because it is a real trauma and something ellie and I can relate to. So I kind of want to. Even though we've healed those parts of ourselves, I I do know that some people out there can be triggered by hearing things like you could have. You know. I just want to be clear.

Isa: 17:52

This is not including out of control disaster. So we're going to big T and little T's. Right, there's also circumstances that are out of our control. So think of natural disasters. Right, it rains often. Right, it doesn't mean like every rain is going to lead to a flood, but every now and then there's a flood, and every now and then there's a hurricane, and every now and then. That's the same thing with life and I don't want anybody listening to feel that we're playing down something that was completely out of your control, absolutely.

Elly: 18:25

The biggest thing is is that we you know people that have that have gone through a tremendous amount of abuse. They tend to be more guarded. They tend to, and that's, that's their safety net. I would never say don't worry about you know don't worry prepare you know, do the things and then maybe open a sliver to someone that you can trust. But you know that's. You know that is talking about those things that hopefully are not things that happen all the time. That's not the right way. I want to say that.

Isa: 19:04

But Until they understand your meaning.

Elly: 19:07

Yeah, you know things. Bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad people and the, the, the world that we live in is a broken place, and but if we go through life afraid of everything that could happen, then we're like of no earthly good, because we, we aren't going to be living life, we aren't going to be living life, we aren't going to be living life to any kind of fullness. And what are we? What's the legacy that we're leaving to our children and our grandchildren, our great grandchildren? And then why are we living this life? And so this? There's so much to this life. Bad things happen, and it's they never should happen, but they do.

Isa: 19:55

but there are healing correct, and I also wanted to say that it doesn't remove responsibility from ourselves, even with those big t's things that are of our control. When they happen, we then later can work on controlling how we react to it, which takes us back to square one, what we're talking about healing and mindfulness and and kind of like recognizing your symptoms in your body and in your mind and your behavior. Because, just like Ellie said, like if we don't decide to tackle that at some point and it could be baby steps my steps to healing can be wide and broad in certain things. Other things can be little short steps that take me longer, and some things I haven't even uncovered yet. I mean, this is just something that we need to know instead of walking in shame and feeling like I have to compare myself to Ellie and my journey.

Isa: 20:44

No, this is not it either, but this is how we perpetuate trauma, generational trauma, when we don't heal. The Bible says we have to break generational curses I mean it doesn't use the word generational curses, but the iniquities in our life, in our generation, so they don't carry on to the next generation. It's kind of like if you recognize something, just like Ellie was saying, your cell retains it. You know what it also retains the victories in our life. It retains what we overcome through work and dedication. Hopefully the next generation has the tools and has the ability to then overcome those things and deal with things we couldn't and that's really what we're trying to kind of like break down here. There are things that when they happened totally out of your control and even if it was in your control and it happened because you made a poor decision, that still puts you in this leveling plane. Right, it's not like your trauma is bigger because you had no choice. Trauma is trauma. And then when we are here now we're in this level level field, now we have to kind of climb and that requires renewal of your mind, that requires meditation and therapy.

Isa: 21:55

And when I say meditation, I'm talking bible meditation, I'm talking mindfulness, I'm talking sit there with God, with yourself, with nature, and and think about feeling every part of your body. You exist in this moment, in this moment alone. The bible says be anxious for nothing, and I'm not throwing as a platitude, I'm throwing it as this is what we've been speaking of. Obviously it had to say that because anxiety existed in that moment. Right, that was said because somebody was dealing with anxiety, so it's not. It's not a shame or a condemnation. It's like this is what I'm telling you Be anxious for nothing.

Isa: 22:32

It even says another. You cannot control tomorrow, so worry about today. Tomorrow is going to have its own things to worry about. So when we take these little bites, it's like this giant burger. Right, we want to eat it all and we potentially can. But if you try to shove it all in at one time, you're probably going to choke. But if you take a bite at a time, it's going to be more enjoyable, you're going to eat exactly what you need and the rest can be saved for later yeah, yeah.

Elly: 22:59

So for people that are realizing that they've got some past wounds and that they they are really looking for a path to whole person healing. You know some of the things that you said I've been talking about. You know the mindfulness, somatic awareness that's really getting in tune with your body. Now practice how often am I okay, you know, throughout the day? Do I wake up angry? Am I depressed? This is called being outside of the window of tolerance. Just notice chart one day, take a 24 hour period, maybe take six, seven times during the day where you just stop, check in what am I feeling, what am I noticing? How often am I okay If I'm outside of the window of tolerance? How long does it take me to get inside the window of tolerance? Let's say I wake up kind of angry and I stay that way all day long. So I'm really kind of all day long and nothing can bring me outside of the window of tolerance. But let's say I wake up and I'm okay and then I don't know the dog. I tripped over the dog on the way to the bathroom and I yell at the dog and then I feel bad and I, you know, I get the dog retreat and I self-soothe and I'm okay, just noticing.

Elly: 24:21

How often am I outside of the window of tolerance, that window of where I'm good, I can be above it. Where I'm really anxious, I'm really yelling at the dog or I'm really depressed, that's below the window. So where am I Okay? How often do I go outside of that space and what does it take for me to come back in it? How do I self-soothe? Do I? Do I self-soothe in a healthy way? Do I self-soothe in an unhealthy way? You know? Um, so there's those kinds of things to think about, just developing an awareness. If you find that you can't, you're really struggling to get back inside of the window of tolerance. Do you have a friend you can talk to? Do you have a pastor, a therapist, somebody that you can talk to to kind of help you cope? So finding ways to cope, and then maybe we can get to a point where, if I'm okay in my present, then I can start really digging in and working through my past traumas. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Isa: 25:27

And we've talked about this before. But don't be afraid that in the process of healing particular wounds and traumas, you may uncover new ones. Just start over. If the technique worked with one, it will work with the other layer and you might have to intensify certain things, depending on what it is. Consider it an opportunity to heal more of you. That's how I've been like okay, especially when you, when you feel like you've overcome certain things, or at least have the right tools because I shouldn't say overcome, it's like you have the right tools to deal with things if they present themselves, and feel like you get better at it every time.

Isa: 26:03

If something else pops up, because we're mindful, we're quiet. Now we know that, okay, I'm hungry, but I'm not gonna actually die, you know. Then you start uncovering other things. I was like, oh, but I have like this deep desire to just get on my phone right now, so maybe I need to detox from my phone. You start it's the same thing with your spiritual and your mental life. You start uncovering things as you declutter other things in your life.

Isa: 26:26

Don't allow shame to seep in again, because it's like God's techniques therapeutic healing is the same, the enemy's techniques are the same, the same way. So, like whenever you're uncovering something, the first thing is shame and guilt and all these things want to come over, which tend to paralyze you and stop you from okay, I'm gonna take a bath or I'm going to go for a walk and then think about why I feel this way and then create a plan of action. The same tools you used to heal before might be the tools that help you again. Maybe you have to tweak a couple of things as you grow, but that goes back again. Don't panic, don't be anxious. Let's think about this and let's heal. We did it before. Let's do it again yeah, absolutely well.

Elly: 27:14

As we start to close, I just want to share, uh, just a little, just a little thing that was on my heart as I was preparing for uh this week's, uh, this month's episode. Um, you know, healing from trauma, big t, developmental trauma, all of this stuff. It's not about erasing what happened and a lot of times people think it's I have to, I have to completely erase this thing, but it's not. It's about learning how to move forward and how to develop that awareness, self-compassion, compassion for others, and it's really about finding those tools to help you live in the present, because we can't change the past and tomorrow's coming, but today is where we live, so it's really about staying focused there. It may take journaling, mindfulness, reaching out for support, going to therapy. There are tools out there.

Elly: 28:18

I wrote a great book to help us kind of really dig in, put yourself into what we call the Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. My book is A Better Way to Heal, integrating Faith and psychology to heal inner wounds, and that's really what. That's what sparked us. That's really. That was the thing that got us motivated to get together and start doing this podcast.

Elly: 28:42

We're also going to be digging in on a conference at the end of May, may the 31st, we're going to have a conference in Killeen, texas and it's going to be an all day and we're really going to be looking at a better way to heal, really integrating faith and therapy. I'll be there, issa will be there. She's going to be our, our, she's going to keep us on, she's going to keep us online and going in a direction. She's going to pump us up when the energy gets low, which hopefully but you know I might, but uh, that is uh ace is going to be there really to help us out yes, yes and just a reminder, like my last words is like, just like ellie said, we live today, today.

Isa: 29:28

We can heal tomorrow, because we can't change tomorrow, but we can heal today from tomorrow, from yesterday and we can prepare for tomorrow, but it only happens today. Sometimes, like she said, you're working on the future. You can't do anything about the future is not here and you can't change the past, but you can heal from the past today and you can prepare for the future today, and that just requires you being present.

Elly: 29:51

All right. Well, great talk today, issa. I hope our viewers like, subscribe, share, share this. If this touched your life, share it with somebody. Yes, all right, bye-bye, bye, until next time. Yes, Thank you for watching us. We really appreciate you being here. If you enjoyed the episode, like, subscribe, share with a friend and join us next time. Thank you, bye-bye.