Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello everybody, I am Ellie and I'm Issa, and you are here watching A Better Way, A Better Way.

Speaker 2: 0:08

Or listening as the case may be. Yes, if you're listening, you didn't see me lift up Ellie's beautiful mug. Yes, that she made with pottery.

Speaker 1: 0:17

Yes, absolutely so. Today we're going to talk about our struggle, not meaning it doesn't mean that we have a lack of faith. So we talk a lot about faith and therapy on this podcast, and so we're going to dig a little deeper into that today?

Speaker 2: 0:34

Yes, absolutely so. Struggles the Bible literally says we will have trouble. This is the form of struggle. There will be temptations and testing. Testing, which means we're going to struggle. Temptation, in fact, if you're not struggling against it, you're giving into it, right. So struggle just means there's something we're fighting, absolutely, whether it's mentally, spiritually or physically, or all of them at times. Yeah, so struggles will be a part of life until jesus comes, and there is no necessarily tie in to saying that if you struggle, you have no faith absolutely yes.

Speaker 1: 1:10

So first, we're going to share with you some of our favorite biblical characters that may have struggled just a little bit, a little bit, just a little. So one of my favorites is Elijah. He was such a great prophet, and I mean he? I mean, come on, he battles what 450 prophets of Baal? He doesn't battle them, he brings them to a space where God can show up. Yeah, and he has so much faith. Not only did he have them water the altar, was it three times?

Speaker 2: 1:49

Yes, he surrounded, he did like a moat around the altar, he watered it, he watered the sacrifice, all of it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It was a whole ritual, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:59

So the prophets of Baal could not. If you don't know the story, he called up, he said hey, bring up all your prophets of Baal. If you don't know the story, he called up. He said hey, bring up all your prophets of Baal and see if they can get their God to light this altar on fire. All day long. They could not get it to happen. Elijah throws all kinds of water everywhere. I mean, if there was water. They're in the middle of a drought too by the way just so you know.

Speaker 1: 2:25

That's how much faith he had, because if this hadn't have worked there would have been some trouble. But I mean the minute he called down, the fire just lit just like that Even the water caught fire.

Speaker 2: 2:39

That's how much God was making himself evident and his power evident through Elijah's faith, and just honored him in that way, because there was a battle of the wheels, in a way. Jezebel was completely perverting the people of Israel, belief and spirituality, with all these priests and all these other beliefs, and she had some power. The reason this was happening is because she had some power and influence, and so did her priest, but his point was to show my god yeah, has way more power and influence.

Speaker 1: 3:13

So yes, elijah, yes, so elijah does this great feat. And then jezebel says you know, strike me dead if he's not dead by the end of this day. And that struck a fear in Elijah. We talk about do not fear. We talk about people. That's a sin to fear. I've heard that said, and yet Elijah feared so much.

Speaker 2: 3:39

His little faith is thrown around.

Speaker 1: 3:41

Yes, oh my gosh, so many times I've been told that. I can't even tell you how much I've been told that. But Elijah took off, he ran, he hid God, you know, did God come and strike him dead?

Speaker 2: 3:56

No, no, no, he even came and fed him, he nurtured him, he sent birds to feed him. He was in a cave and he essentially said you know what? Take a minute, take a break. Yeah, you've been through a lot. You fought the good fight because he had been until that point advocating and fighting and prophesying and doing all kinds of stuff and, uh, essentially he, in that moment, needed that comfort and needed that recovery and needed that r r yeah and god gave it to him.

Speaker 1: 4:24

yes, not only, not just once. You know, because how many times have we said, well, you're not over. He needed that recovery and needed that R&R. Yeah, and God needed him. Yes, not only, not just once. You know, because how many times have we said, well, you're not over this yet? Yeah, but he gave it to him twice. It's like okay, you haven't rested enough. Yeah, you know, eat some more, rest some more, because the journey before you is going to be arduous. And he did.

Speaker 2: 4:43

Yeah, and he did yeah. And then we have David. So, david, there's so many Psalms and, yes, we know he didn't write every single one of them, but he wrote the majority of them and every Psalm that you can read, you can see the vulnerability, you can see his faith very clearly, yeah, his faith and his leaning on the.

Speaker 2: 5:03

Lord in every circumstance. But you also see his faith very clearly, his faith and his leaning on the Lord in every circumstance. But you also see his despair and you also see his fear and you also see his pain and they can coexist, in fact. God wants us to open up and give that to him and expose it to the light when we let it fester with the pretense of faith. Our faith doesn't become stronger by pretending we're faithful.

Speaker 2: 5:28

It actually becomes stronger by recognizing that we're not strong, that we are weak and that we need him to be strong again.

Speaker 1: 5:38

And you know, david gets the rap if you will of being a man after God's own heart.

Speaker 2: 5:45

So I mean the reputation, I guess you should say but he didn't do everything well, yeah, yeah, and he had moments of, yes, sin, moments of sin. But I think what strikes me the most, and I remember him the most for, is his relationship with God and his vulnerability, the ability to be accountable he was accountable Be grateful and gracious, which I think was the antidote really for him. His gratitude we can talk about that a little bit later but also be able to be raw with the Lord Raw, just raw, and there's healing in that. There's healing in speaking up on what's ailing you. It's kind of like letting it out. It's kind of like debridement.

Speaker 2: 6:28

I know you use that in a conference. Um, when there's a festering wound and you go in there and you deal with it, it's going to be painful, it's going to be uncomfortable and you might need breaks in between.

Speaker 1: 6:39

And some anesthetic and some tlc.

Speaker 2: 6:42

But yeah, once you do that on a regular basis, that wound will become stronger, it will heal and it'll be less and less sensitive Every time you have to go in there and deal with it. It'll it'll be less and less pain, less and less pain. Until it's gone, you will always have a scar, yes, yes, but the scar doesn't have to hurt anymore. Right, right, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 7:03

Yes, but the scar doesn't have to hurt anymore. Right, right, absolutely. And one of my favorite characters in the Bible is Job, and Job was, he was so such a man of quality or character that Satan noticed him and brought him to God's attention and said well, actually, god brought him to God's attention and said, well, actually, god brought Job to Satan's attention let me get that correct and said have you seen my servant Job?

Speaker 2: 7:37

Because Job was a man that served God, that honored God in all that he did and yet Job, God allowed him to be tested and tried, yeah, and essentially Satan was like well, let's see what happens when I take everything you've given him away.

Speaker 1: 7:58

And.

Speaker 2: 7:58

Jesus was like you can take everything but his life, and I don't know about you, but my life is my least valuable thing. My children are in the people that I love.

Speaker 2: 8:49

I hold to higher esteem than my own. Love doesn't mean that I want to die, but it just means that taking my life is the least of my worries if what's on the other end of it is my children. So it's a story that weighs very heavy on me because, wow, lord, I don't know how I would feel, and I know a lot of people. This is a great example too, and I'm deviating because it's so crazy how it's a great example. This is one of my vulnerable moment here and showing you how I have complete faith in the Lord. I love him, I pursue him daily and I know he's coming and I know that all of this will be answered. But I actually have struggles with the story of Job myself that I still haven't fully processed. That doesn't change my faith in God, and one of them is and people like to use that oh you see, but he got it all back and I'm like he didn't get the same children back, it was other kids.

Speaker 2: 9:45

So, yes, that's amazing but it's still not my kids, that I love. I don't know how many people relate to this, but I think about this all the time and I only say this to say that sometimes we come up with that story for people trying to comfort them and it might fall flat. So if you have a friend that lost a child, do not bring that story up.

Speaker 2: 10:08

Because, it does not do what you think it does, like we don't it. It's not like my pottery broke and I'm emotionally in touch. I'm like, oh, darn it. And then Ellie comes back and makes me another one. That's just like, and I'm like, oh my god, that's exciting, but the child that I lost is the child that I lost, and I could have 20 more and, yes, it'll bring additional joy to my life but, it will not replace the loss of my life and I think that's something that you know.

Speaker 1: 10:37

I just had to say I mean as a, as a parent of more than one child uh, more than one child, think which child would you say, okay, you can take that one. Yeah, none of us would.

Speaker 1: 10:50

No, not, none of us want to lose a child all right, speaking as a mother who had a child that went through a year of chemo and that I I didn't want to let go of any of my children, to include this child, and it's unfortunate that sometimes we lose a child, but even in all of that Job still had faith in God. Exactly, yeah, exactly. So I mean, it's not that he didn't have a good talking to, by God. Oh yeah, yeah, but he didn't lose his faith.

Speaker 2: 11:27

And God didn't abandon him, which is the whole point. Like, sometimes we make people feel that because, oh, you're not getting over this enough or you know, you, you're, you're scared about your condition, you have a physical illness, you're going through this financial trouble. It's your lack of faith. It's your lack of faith, job. It wasn't his life, yeah, and God didn't abandon him. Right, and God did correct that he was starting to become troubled, but he still didn't love and took the time to do it.

Speaker 2: 11:56

If we remember the God of the Old Testament. He could have just ended him right then. And there, yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing that we don't kind of see in Scripture, and I really said the story about the children being him giving, given more children with the same wife, only to say that I'm pretty sure that wound wasn't completely healed. He was blessed, he was multiplied, but God still, he still carried the loss of what he lost.

Speaker 1: 12:28

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 12:29

Still in favor with God. That's really the point of my story. Lost, yeah, absolutely, and was still in favor with God. That's really the point of my story that we can walk around with questions obedience over sacrifice obedience over sacrifice.

Speaker 2: 12:40

So sometimes we just obey without fully understanding why and it's not and I'm not talking about blind following of people that can be dangerous. This is an understanding that we have a belief on something more. So, if you're out there struggling in any way with faith or with the things that are happening in your life, I know there is no one word thing that I'm going to say that's going to snap you out of it. I'm not even going to say snap out of it, just continue to pursue the Lord. That's what David did. Continue to pursue him in the dark, continue to pursue him in the valley, because the truth is, this life is filled with ups and downs.

Speaker 1: 13:24

Absolutely, and I'm glad you said that, because that brings me to my next point. Pain and faith can coexist without canceling one another out. I know I've got clients that will come to me and they're like I feel like I've lost my faith or I've lost my way because I haven't been able to snap out of whatever this is that I'm going through. I've had people tell me that my faith wasn't strong enough because I hadn't snapped out of things that I was going through and I know that they do that too.

Speaker 1: 14:01

I mean, I know that's common, I'm not unique that that happened to and. I'm sure things like that have happened to you yeah yeah, there's moments of it.

Speaker 2: 14:10

um, I've had people. It's simple, it can start with simple things, but one time I was at a class at the church. Um, we were doing a class I don't remember exactly what it was and I had a really bad bout of allergies. I'm allergic to um cedar and it was it was january and it was like a really bad season, because I don't know how many people know they actually pollinate in january and um, they were very strong and I was like sneezing and coughing, and somebody that was leading the class goes what's going on with you?

Speaker 2: 14:38

I was like, oh, I just have terrible allergies and they're like no, like, repeat that, like that's not faith, because god didn't make you allergic to the word you were born in and I'm thinking I have a smart mouth. So I was just like um, I was not born in Texas, but you are right, and so am I. I have allergies to cedar. That doesn't make me have lack of faith. I am in a human body that reacts wrong to pollen. Yeah, and you're right, I wasn't born in Texas, so he didn't make me allergic to the environment.

Speaker 1: 15:11

I was born in. I wasn't born here.

Speaker 2: 15:13

Yeah, so it's just one of those things. I don't I'm not saying answer to people that way, but I'm just trying to say that sometimes people say things with maybe they believe they're increasing your faith. If I had been weaker in my faith in that time and when I say weaker I mean it in the sense of a new christian or having moments of doubt I still have those, they still come up but if I would have been in a vulnerable moment in my faith, that would have been one of those things that turns you off like so, oh, maybe, maybe it is true, maybe god doesn't have favor on me and he can't heal me because I have allergies to peter. Yeah, I just didn't take my citrussine today and I'm reacting to the falling in the air, but anyways, and it's okay and I'm soothing.

Speaker 1: 15:58

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I had a very similar. I was going through some problems with my feet.

Speaker 2: 16:04

And.

Speaker 1: 16:05

I was really struggling, had been prayed for and really felt a miracle of healing In the moment. The moment passed, the feet pain came back and there's that immediate oh. No, maybe she didn't have enough faith and the doctors were doing a scan to see if I had cancer and somebody asked me what was going on with my feet and I made the stupid assumptions that they really wanted to know. And so I told them and they're like, oh, don't say the c-word. Huh, what was the c-word? Wait, cancer. Oh lord, oh my gosh, is God not strong enough to handle cancer? Yeah, I mean, really weird. It's like we think that we're taking some. I know the power of words. I'm a therapist, I hundred percent know the power of words. But there's a difference between saying that oh, oh me, oh my, I have cancer, and making that my identity and making that the thing that I'm focusing on and I can't focus on the love of god and there's a difference between that and saying, okay, I have cancer and god's going to kick his butt exactly.

Speaker 2: 17:23

It's a reality and I didn't, by the way I didn't but yes it's a reality, like we live in this world and I, like I agree. There's a power in healing. There's a power of claiming your healing and not, um, essentially surrendering to the pain. You can surrender to god while still being concerned about your health, and that's essentially the balance that you want. You want to acknowledge that something's wrong is fine and allow god to heal it, but sometimes it could just be us listening to people. There's ways that you can speak life and faith into people that might be struggling their faith. I'm not saying that there's never a time for us to speak life into people, because that's not at all what we're saying. What we're saying there is accountability, there's discipleship and there is a place where you speak life into people.

Speaker 2: 18:10

Now, relationship is important, kindness is important and an actual anointing and calling by god, I believe, is important not everybody is tasked or on an assignment, yeah, to do that, yeah, and you can't do that with everybody because you do more harm than good, absolutely, when it's not coming from a place that, when the Holy Spirit has prepared ground for that person to be receptive and prepared your mouth to deliver it in a way that they can receive it.

Speaker 1: 18:42

Because there are ways of delivery. Yeah, absolutely so. The next thing I really want to talk about is these misconceptions that we have in in the church world but it's not just in the church world that if we had enough faith, we wouldn't have suffering, and I've seen this otherwise, oh, I have so much faith look at how much I'm suffering. God doesn't want us to prosper, and so I've seen this in both spaces and you know, I'm going to kind of throw these in the air and let's see what lands. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:20

And that's not even what Paul said. So, like Paul, when he was talking about contentment, he was talking about the fact that in suffering which he suffered, he was talking about the fact that in suffering which he suffered, and in abundance and lack and in provision, he was still content. And what I get from that, when Paul talks about that, is that we're not worshiping either. We're not worshiping the prosperity or the abundance as our identity as okay, I'm good with God because I'm doing good financially, I'm doing good with all these. Or we don't kind of like suffer or worship our suffering as okay, I'm good with God because I'm doing good financially, I'm doing good with all these, or we don't kind of like suffer or worship our suffering.

Speaker 2: 20:00

It's more along the lines of regardless of the circumstances around me, I am content, and contentment is, in a sense of. I believe your identity is tied in to God. So I'm still worthy, ellie, even though I'm struggling with my faith right now, because I believe that God said that I can hold on to that. But I'm not going to lie. I'm struggling with what God wants me to do now. Or, I'm still me, even though I may have cancer. Mm hmm, I can still be used by God, even though I get seasonal allergies. It doesn't mean I have a demon. I have seasonal allergies because I live in a human body that reacts to my environment. Yes, and then I'm still worthy.

Speaker 1: 20:44

Yeah, and people come to me all the time thinking that they don't have enough faith because they're suffering from things like anxiety or depression or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia or anything like that.

Speaker 1: 20:57

And that doesn't mean you don't have enough faith. That just means that you have a mental health issue that you need some help dealing with. And you know there's all kinds of things that we can do when we have mental health issues. You know, going to see a therapist is really, really, uh, it's a really helpful thing to do. But, um, you know, sometimes we want to give tips for, you know, things that we can do when we're, uh, when we're in a depressive episode you know, really feeling, um, like we're at the bottom of the barrel.

Speaker 1: 21:35

you know, really kind of maybe reaching out to a friend, maybe play your favorite power song. You know how many of us I just heard that word. Do you know what a power song is? Oh, yes, Okay.

Speaker 2: 21:48

So I guess I am behind the eight ball because I didn't know what a power song was, like we used to say back in the day it was like my soundtrack, like my soundtrack in this season yeah, this is my jam.

Speaker 1: 21:59

It's kind of like that yeah, yeah, so you know motivator. Yes, absolutely so. If you're in a depressive episode and you're really struggling, play your power song. Know what your power songs are. You know I had a. I had a hysterectomy years ago and I had this CD that I had made and it was Ellie's Mix.

Speaker 1: 22:23

And it had all these power songs on there, some good old fashioned gospel music, and my doctor, when I went in for my checkup after my doctor's like can I have a copy of that? So it was. You know, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Play your soundtrack, play it on sound, on max, you know, and just allow yourself to feel the music and be in it to help bring you up when you're depressed.

Speaker 2: 22:51

Laughter, and I mean there's so many remedies. Walking in nature is one, but you know, sometimes it's raining, sometimes you have physical ailments, there's people that are bedridden and can't go for a walk and a stroll. So I think finding things that bring you joy and a lot of people say, well, joy should be you praying. The Bible talks about laughter being medicine. Yeah, so I mean, I don't know about you, but I don't crack up every time I open the bible.

Speaker 1: 23:20

I'm not like in stitches you know, some, some, some books do crack you up, but it's not, I'm not in stitches.

Speaker 2: 23:27

So laughter, obviously, is used in both proverbs and in the new testament. Is medicine, yes, which means I have to interact with something that makes me laugh, absolutely. You know, sometimes the religiousness, the legalism that we use binds the spirit, not integrates us with the spirit. We don't live in harmony with the fact that, yes, we are meant for eternity but we exist in temporal bodies.

Speaker 2: 24:00

And even though we put more value in our spirit, we still have to take care of the vessel that holds it, because if the vessel is in lack of care, you're going to be so much more focused on those needs that you are going to be focused, much more focused, on those needs that you are going to be focused on enriching your spirit.

Speaker 1: 24:16

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 24:17

So if I'm hungry and mind you, this is not I'm agreeing to fast hunger, this is I don't have any food or I'm too depressed to eat. Yes, that can affect what you prioritize.

Speaker 1: 24:31

Yeah, absolutely so. In that same vein, you know, we have the depression, we also have the very anxious, and so one of the things I wanted to do is really share some of the things that we can do when we're in the middle of a panic attack. How many of us have ever had have you ever had a panic attack?

Speaker 2: 24:47

I've had two in my life and they're terrifying.

Speaker 1: 24:56

They really are. They really are, yeah, and so the the one thing about panic attacks is that we are we're very dysregulated, so that just means I'm I'm not able to regulate myself and I'm not able to change my state.

Speaker 1: 25:08

So, and the severe state of anxiety regulation has to be felt. Oh honey, please calm down, calm down, there's nothing wrong, you're okay. Not going to work. Not going to work, don't try to talk somebody out of a panic attack. Things that we can do when somebody's in a panic attack is we want to help them. See, things that will ground them into the present.

Speaker 1: 25:34

There's a technique called five. Uh, the grounding technique is five, four, three, two, one. What are five things? You see, four things you smell or, sorry, four things that you hear, three things that you can touch, uh, two, um, two things that you can uh, can't remember them, but I'll put that in the show notes, but there are. The smell is the top thing, what is the top thing that you can smell? But basically connecting with your environment through the five senses, yes, that's one thing that you can do. Another thing that you can do is change your temperature, like rapid cold water, a warm cloth you know something like that to change your temperature, a hug, and I do a lot of butterfly taps and things like that. This is a very, a very good one to do. And breathing there's this thing called bagel breathing, so it's breathing in for two and breathing out for a long exhale. So those are just a few of the things that you can do when you're having a panic attack.

Speaker 2: 26:49

Yeah, it's really interesting because before I learned about the five um, I forgot what you called it. But my son had a very hard time regulating when he was scared and he would get very anxious. Uh, especially if we were trying to correct something or talk to him, he would go into these.

Speaker 2: 27:08

Really like you could physically see him struggling and hyperventilating and I don't know, one day this was years ago I felt like saying wait, what do you see? Yes, no, no, focus on what you see. I didn't say calm down or anything. I was like focus on what you see, what do you see? And he would say you, and I said, okay, look around the room. What else do you see?

Speaker 2: 27:32

and then once he does the escalated, then I would go okay, what do you feel? And then he would be like my pants, you know. But by the time and I went through all the senses I didn't have training for that, I just thought that it was grounding yes, because if you're looking and scanning the room, it kind of takes you outside of your head into reality.

Speaker 2: 27:52

That was was my whole point. Yeah, I only say this to say that these are techniques that people have learned, but they have a use. The Holy Spirit inspires that. It's essentially living in the present.

Speaker 2: 28:05

So the way to fight anxiety is do something that brings you into reality, because anxiety is a disproportion fear of what is to come, or what you think is going to come, and you're inside your head and it's the worst case scenario. Yeah, and you're replaying it on a loop. Yeah, so you have to disconnect and disengage from the possibility and the what if and bring yourself into the reality of the moment.

Speaker 1: 28:31

Yeah, absolutely so. The last thing I want to say before we run out of time for today I want to talk about we find ways to, in a healthy way, integrate in a healthy way we find ways to. We want to find ways to integrate prayer, scripture and and emotional honesty into this, as we really start understanding and leaning into the fact that our struggle doesn't mean that we have a lack of faith. Correct.

Speaker 2: 29:05

In fact, it's a great time to exercise our faith and to trust that God, who loves you, will hold you in that moment and that you are safe to feel in him. That will be the thing that regulates you. Be still and know that I am God Doesn't necessarily mean be still and get it together, because I am God and you should know better. It's just be still and know and then let your body catch up with what your spirit knows, and sometimes it takes our body time to catch up with what we know.

Speaker 1: 29:41

Well, we are out of time for today, so Issa it is always such a pleasure, Awesome. So thank you guys for watching. Thank you, Alright bye-bye. Bye.