SPEAKER_03: 0:00

Because you have other things that unite us that are more important. So we're going to talk about that. I'm glad you brought that up because we're going to talk about healing relationships specifically in the holidays, but I want you to be able to, because I don't know when you're going to listen to this, right? Correct. And I want you to be able to take this anywhere. How do we heal relationships? One, and then how do we um we don't how do we know whether that's a relationship we're supposed to heal? Because not all relationships are for uh or friendships or family members. It's not always for a lifetime, sometimes it can just be for a season. So how do we know the truth uh the difference?

SPEAKER_01: 0:40

Hello everybody, and welcome to A Better Way to Heal, where faith meets therapy.

SPEAKER_03: 0:48

Larry likes to get these little beginnings. He does. Uh-huh. Like the little chats. Uh-huh. Yes. This is hibiscus and green tea. Hibiscus and green tea. Well, hello, everybody. Hello. I am Ellie and I am here with my beautiful co-host, Issa. And I'm Issa. Yes, I know I was supposed to say for name tea. Uh we are uh you are watching or listening to A Better Way to Heal where Faith Needs Therapy. And this is a podcast that is really to do with. I mean, we started off because of the book that I wrote, A Better Way, Integrating Faith and Psychology to Healing and Wins. And what we found is that we struggle sometimes to connect faith and therapy. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43

I actually um saw a post this morning that I it's funny that you bring it up in that way from a mutual friend from uh church, and he wrote something along the lines therapy treats the wound and faith heals it, essentially kind of like yeah, I'm paraphrasing it, but um, they can work together. It's uh mind and spirit and physical and the spiritual combined.

SPEAKER_03: 2:09

So yeah, yeah, absolutely. One of the things that we we try to do with this is we really try to bring this all these heavy topics in a more relational, uh relatable uh format. Words are esta escaping me. They always escape me, and whenever we hit the record button, I know, it is kind of hard.

SPEAKER_04: 2:34

If words escape you on a podcast, we have to like revamp that I know, right?

SPEAKER_03: 2:38

It's gonna be a pretty silent podcast. Absolutely. So we're we are um I struggle with uh with I can write and then I can rewrite and I can rewrite. It's the getting into the conversational type things that I really struggle with, and I that's one of the reasons why I love doing a podcast with you because we can bounce off of each other. We can finish each other sandwiches. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. Well, today we're going to talk about we're getting closer as we record, we're getting closer to the holidays. And uh in uh Texas, we were in autumn, and I put that in air quotes.

SPEAKER_04: 3:25

Yes, I don't think um the the the weather has caught up with it, but yes, fall started.

SPEAKER_03: 3:31

Fall has started, however, uh Texas has a habit of being hot one day and super cold the next day. So today we're gonna talk about relationships. Um we're gonna dig into a little bit more of the Maslow's hierarchy of needs that um that we talk about in the book. And there's five levels in Maslow's hierarchy, and we're gonna talk about level three. But basically, the five levels are the first one is that physical needs are safe are physical, then our safety needs. That's level two. So basic food, water, shelter, the ability to feel safe and secure where we are. Those are what they call the basic needs, and they meet level one and level two. And we have to have those really pretty much satisfied before we can move up into the level three, which is love and attachment. It's the social belonging. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04: 4:31

And I think they go in um in tandem with safety. You know, when most of the time when you say you feel secure, yes, it should start internally, but um the family members, the people closest to you play a big role in that, especially in marriage, right, and in familiar relationships like parent to child, um, that sense of safety, that I'm safe with you, uh, plays a huge role in that absolutely.

SPEAKER_03: 4:55

Absolutely. Um one of the things that um that is so important for our mental health is connections. And we I don't think we we capture that well enough, but uh when I have a client that will come into my office, one of the first things that we talk about is how how are they able to connect with others? You know, what's their social support like? That's one of the what we call protective factors because if I have a good social network, I tend to do better mentally and physically than I do when I don't have a good social network. Now, this doesn't mean I have to be friends with everybody, I can have a few close friends and still have feel supported. I could have a hundred friends and not feel supported because we, you know, we use this word friend. Uh, some of us use it pretty lightly.

SPEAKER_04: 5:49

Yes. Yes, so I like when whenever I discuss this, even in Bible study with our women's group, and I discuss this type of relationship and what isolation looks like versus fellowship, um, and how important it was for Christ to Christ that we met and did fellowship and why. And I like his example with the disciples. So we had Jesus, and Jesus had these 12 friends, and within that circle of 12 friends, he still had a group, an even smaller group, to whom he went for more deeper conversation. So um if it's good for Jesus, it's good for us. And it's just a way of giving us permission that loving somebody doesn't mean that you have this intimate interaction with everybody. Um, there's an inner circle, and that doesn't mean that you're excluding anybody. This is just the protected safety net. And he had the 12 disciples that included Judas, and that's a story for another time. Uh-huh. But he had Peter and John. Absolutely. Yeah. I know. And it wasn't about perfection, it was not. Peter was the loud one, and we all have that loud friend. And if you don't know who it is, it's you, it's me. It's me. It's me. Um I'm Peter. I'm Peter. She's the beloved John. No, but um, but you know, it's it's in even in those moments, there's moments where Jesus wanted them to pray with him and they didn't. So I'm showing that there could be flaws in your friendships. Absolutely. And healthy people can survive that because you have other things that unite us that are more important.

SPEAKER_03: 7:30

So we're gonna talk about that. I'm glad you brought that up because we're gonna talk about healing relationships specifically in the holidays, but I want you to be able to, because I don't know when you're gonna listen to this, right? Correct. And I want you to be able to take this anywhere. How do we heal relationships? One, and then how do we um we don't how do we know whether that's a relationship we're supposed to heal? Because not all relationships are for uh or friendships or family members, it's not always for a lifetime, sometimes it can just be for a season. So, how do we know the tr uh the difference? Because this is such a heavy topic, we're probably we're gonna break this into two and we're gonna talk about five ways of healing holiday relationships, and we're gonna hit the first two today, and then next week we're gonna hit the last three.

SPEAKER_04: 8:22

Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I like that. And for me, it's like I keep on thinking, you know, we we we try to keep this as natural and as little rehearsed as possible. And for instance, I keep on thinking of a scenario in scripture that we can apply to the holidays and gathering with family, and I think of the Last Supper, yes, the Last Supper is a perfect example to me of how you handle it with grace and with the love of God, while knowing that there's a Peter that will deny you, which interestingly enough was also a close friend, and there's also a Judas that will betray you, and how Jesus handled himself in that situation. If you remember correctly, Jesus acknowledged and knew that was amongst him, but it was more about let's we're doing this now. The the the breaking the bread now and you knowing who I am before this next chapter of our life is more important than whatever differences we have, but know that I know. I think that's something very similar that we can do with our own families in our own apostles. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03: 9:28

Absolutely. When you I think about the dynamics between uh the the uh the twelve um apostles, and there had to have been some, and we don't get we don't get to hear about all of that. We hear some. Who's your favorite? I believe that was asked at the last supper. It was, yeah. Uh and uh so the you can see in these little things, but they were all there, they were all there, even though some of them may not have gotten along, but they were there to be at the request of Jesus. And Jesus wanted them there and they were there, and sometimes we have to sometimes I I don't want to say have to because we get to make choices in life, but sometimes there are times that you have to be called to be with family members or friends that maybe aren't the safest or that you've had a fracture or a rupture with. Correct.

SPEAKER_04: 10:25

So and this is not necessarily to take and to condone being in an unsafe situation. Um, like I said, Jesus plainly in front of the group said, somebody here will betray me, somebody here will deny me. There wasn't a pretending that everything is okay from Jesus, he wasn't doing that, right? But he was also saying we we need to get closer and heal these things for what is to come. There's something coming, and applying that to family situations is let's think it's Thanksgiving, and I know in modern times we have a lot of issues with politics and religion at the table, and that's that's kind of like the everybody thing, but then sometimes there's deeper wounds. There's been some childhood abuse, there's been some betrayal, there's been some divorce, there's been some different fractures in the family. Yeah, and that's kind of what we're trying to get to. How to approach that in those moments when you want to be with family gathered, but are triggered or have still unhealed wounds or unhealed situations with members of your family that may be there. Right. How to approach that right?

SPEAKER_03: 11:34

So the first thing is developing an awareness of the trigger. And it may be that I don't even recognize that it's when so-and-so is there, or what it is about that that them that triggers. I mean, sometimes we know that there was abuse and we know that that happened, or we know that every time we bring up politics, these two people are gonna go at it. Or every time we may know certain things, but just really developing an awareness of what's going on internally. You know, what about this triggers me? What about this is something that I'm gonna I'm gonna react? Correct. You know, how am I gonna lose my peace in this? And that because that's the only thing we can control. We can't control other people. We try, I mean, I have my office can be full of people that try to well, you know, my husband, my wife, my kid, my parent, they all did these things and they did, and that's valid. However, you're the one that's sitting here, and so sometimes what is it about me? How can I, if I want to be in this situation, how do I protect? I mean, how do I protect my heart, my mind, right?

SPEAKER_04: 12:53

Yeah, not control the environment, but how do I um survive and thrive through this environment?

SPEAKER_03: 13:00

And I yeah, well the uh the thing I was gonna uh I was struggling for the words for is really trying to figure out how what how is this impacting me? Uh one of the things that I have really uh I don't want to say one of the things I've really started using a lot is polybagel theory. And if you don't know what that is, um I would definitely look it up, but it basically talks about how our bodies respond uh in certain situations. And sometimes we can be stuck in these fight or flight or or freeze or fawn or uh this collapsed state, and when I'm in these states, I react a certain way, and maybe that's not a way that I want to react, and maybe I don't even realize I'm in that fight or flight. So if I can recognize I'm in fight or flight, and maybe I've had a really rough day, maybe I was at Christmas time battling the Christmas Eve shopping. I'm not a shopper, are you a shopper? No, okay, I'm not a shopper either. Yeah. Maybe I was battling the shopping, and then so-and-so said something, and I bit their head off. Yeah, because I didn't realize I where I was at.

SPEAKER_04: 14:17

So I have to really be aware. Yeah. Um, and when I think uh going back to around the table and in that scenario, I I was picturing the moment where Jesus was telling them, you know, that time is gonna come where I'm going to have to die. So it's a difficult conversation, it's a heavy conversation with the family, and then we have Peter's reaction, no, like I will save you, I'm ready to die for you. And then somebody else saying, How can this be? and how how he handled it. For instance, Jesus wasn't trying to control Peter's emotions or Judas's emotions or John's crying, or he was controlling his environment by saying these things have to happen, and I appreciate acknowledging all these emotions happening, but bringing everybody to the center. So for me, that would look like if I'm battling something and I'm being triggered and I'm having all these emotions, that example just tells me why am I feeling this way? I think mindfulness comes in there, and then it kind of like centering myself when you have set goals within yourself and you've journaled and you've prayed and you've decided this is the type of person I want to be, because that's what Jesus, Jesus was intentional. You can then control your internal environment. Right, yes, and your your your how do you it doesn't mean that it's not gonna hurt, it doesn't mean because even Jesus was like, okay, Peter, like these things have to happen. Right. Then you can can move forward and be like, I understand how this is making you feel, family member. Let's say you're making an announcement, I'm moving to Spain, and we have sometimes family members can't handle change, and you can be like, I understand how it makes you feel, I will miss you as well, but this is something I have to do. Or I I'm marrying somebody or I am making this big decision, and you have to make sure you're centered with the truth of who you are in the journey you're in, so that you can't stand up for yourself in a way that doesn't have to attack anybody else. And I think that's how Jesus handled it. He just presented the truth, his the truth, and how you reacted is how you reacted, he maintained his standard. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03: 16:28

Well, I think there's when we we're when we're trying to work on ourselves and we're really trying to develop that awareness of what's going on, there's uh sometimes we really have to invite God in. Yes, you know, we really have to ask him to search our heart and really help us understand. And that's so uh uh that's biblical, and it's also you you also hear that in the mindfulness pieces, in the in the therapy world, the first thing I'm gonna talk about is what are some of your triggers? I don't know, what's a trigger? You know, sometimes that's what we that's how we respond. And so understanding and asking that you know, asking God to assert us and to help us understand what our triggers are and and how now once I know it, it's like, oh okay, I recognize that. Yes, and I can I can okay, I don't have to let that that mountain stumble, you know, cause me to stumble this time, but I have to recognize that it's there first.

SPEAKER_04: 18:09

Yeah, and recognizing it is going to help you set up appropriate boundaries because we a lot of us like to talk about boundaries, but boundaries are literally lines and limits that you create.

SPEAKER_05: 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 18:21

So if you don't know yourself where those are, you cannot properly set boundaries for other people. But what it can become, it can become completely like stiff-arming people instead of creating a healthy boundary. Um, and the only way you can know that is being aware. So, this is a conversation I was having very recently with my husband about emotions and how we're attempting to teach our children to manage their emotions and ourselves in the process. So, emotions get a bad rap. They either become an identifier in which allow you to wallow in the emotion and behave out of emotion, or they become something you completely avoid and deny as if it had no importance. And in the Bible, it says that emotions can be deceiving, but it doesn't mean they're not useful. And this is essentially like having a smoke alarm or a fire alarm at home. It's not gonna put out the fire, no, and it's not going to do anything, it's letting you know that there is a fire. So I feel like emotions, whether it's fear, anger, all of these emotions are letting you know something is wrong. It is our responsibility to find out what is wrong before we respond.

SPEAKER_03: 19:36

Yeah, that brings to our second point. Uh, we really want to first we have to develop awareness of our triggers, and the second thing is we really want to protect our peace, and that's the setting of the boundaries in uh understanding uh is am I is this safe? You know, we we we don't want to deliberately put ourselves in unsafe situations. Now, sometimes it can be uncomfortable and not be unsafe. Correct, correct. That's where the emotions can be deceiving, right? Absolutely. You know, in the Bible it talks about uh the two-edged sword and how that sharpen, how we're sharpened by that two-edged sword. Now, I don't know about you, but I I think a two-edged sword is kind of painful, and so sometimes we we want growth, but we're not willing to go through the growing pains to get there. And sometimes growth is maybe sitting down and having that hard conversation with that friend that that didn't return our phone call and telling them, you know, I was I was in a really rough time at that time. My family was falling apart, and I reached out to you, and you were nowhere to be found. And then your friend can say, Wow, I didn't know, and here's what was going on with me. And through the through that painful process of uh kind of opening up and being vulnerable, we can find ways of coming, bridging the gap. You know, sometimes we have our walls up so high that no one can get in, but that means we can't get out.

SPEAKER_04: 21:09

We trap ourselves. Yeah, it's to me, I I think about the immune system. Um, when you have an overactive immune system, you develop autoimmune disease. And I feel like emotionally and with our traumas, that can happen to us. It can become such a raw nerve that we don't treat, we don't deal, we don't strengthen, that instead of protecting us, which was the intended use of God, like saying, Hey, alarm, be aware this is happening, it's become a wall that we put up that doesn't allow us to live or even heal. Like if it what was meant to be a prevention of a wound has become what keeps us from healing to begin with. Absolutely. And it's another example with the smoke alarm. I don't know how many of you have been cooking, and I they used to be so sensitive. They would go up whenever you were frying something and it the smoke got too big, and you knew it was overreacting, but you only knew that because you were aware what you were doing, why it was happening, it was the awareness of that. But if you would have been in bed and somebody else was cooking and the alarm went off, you would have ran out of the room to find out what it was. Right. We have to have the same intention with our emotions and be first introspective. Okay, I'm angry right now. Before I start being short with Ellie, before I start picking it and making it about her, what is happening within me? What is actually causing me to feel angry? And it could be like a self-assessment. Have I eaten today? Did I sleep well last night? Start with the very physical, start with the bottom of the pyramid.

SPEAKER_03: 22:43

Yes, am I hungry?

SPEAKER_04: 22:45

Yeah. Start with the very bottom of the pyramid. Have I met my basic needs today? Um, if I have, then let's move up. Okay, what is making me feel unsure or unsafe? Is it something she's doing, or did I already come here with that undealt situation? And you'd be surprised how quickly you actually find the answer within yourself. And then before you even have to open the mouth to address it with anybody, then at times you do keep on going up and get to that third level where you're like, Well, Ellie, I I really like I love you, but I waited for you here for for an hour. We were supposed to meet an hour ago, and I like so I'm a little bit irritated that you didn't even text me to let me know that you were running behind. This is a healthy conversation, absolutely, to the point, straight, no emotional, like you're so late, you always do this accusatory language. Well, it yes, we'll get you more.

SPEAKER_03: 23:40

Or one of my favorites is that's fine.

SPEAKER_04: 23:44

Yes, avoidance, bottling it up.

SPEAKER_03: 23:47

I and then it leaks out later, later or just somebody else.

SPEAKER_04: 23:51

And I'm gonna be with you. I'll get home and bark at my husband that hasn't been.

SPEAKER_03: 23:55

I don't know because he's safe. I can bark at him, but if I bark at Isa, she might run away.

SPEAKER_04: 23:59

Correct.

SPEAKER_03: 23:59

And when Isa runs away because I because we had a conversation, then is that the friendship? Is that the right friendship? Correct. You know, or or did we handle the conversation correctly? Correct. We both come in this, and we we've talked about this before about healing out loud. And uh sometimes we have to, I mean, we're adults and we're messy, and sometimes we have to apologize for our own behavior and own the pain that we cause other people. Yes, at the same time of I don't want holding someone accountable is it's important that sometimes we can use that, we can go over extreme. You know, we're talking about things we in love and still correction, you know. Correct if that's if that's a s if that's the way you want to treat me, if I'm like, I mean, if you had to, oh, you got a phone call and then uh you your dog ate your homework and you didn't even text me, and I'm sitting here for an hour, and then I've got places I have to be, maybe, and if that's a a habit, a habitual thing, then maybe we have a deeper conversation.

SPEAKER_04: 25:12

Exactly. What's going on? And then a good example of even that, like let's say that that didn't happen, but if this was a real scenario and I address it this way, she's feeling respected. She's feeling I I would even take it further, to be honest. I would be, it was everything okay. I was worried about you, because we have to choose to recognize that the people across us are people just as myself that haven't lives and are going through things just as we are. Absolutely. And that is not just healing for yourself, but the people across from you. Because let's model an unhealthy way of doing it. If I come in and go, like that was so disrespectful, I just start feeling all of the things that are wrong with you. Uh-huh. And I'm immediately going to put up the fence wall and I'm like, okay, I'm done. Exactly. Or you can be coming and saying, Well, I had a car accident on the way here, and I actually tried calling you and you didn't answer. We can we can play the blame game all day long. We've been doing this in the Garden of Eden. God blame uh Adam blamed God for Eve, Eve blamed the snake, and like we can, it doesn't work. That God wants us to look inwardly and repent of what we have done wrong and then set boundaries for others where we're where we're protecting our identity and protecting relationships. Yeah, and we need, I feel like that's the root of a lot of our own trauma. We are re wounding each other, trying to protect ourselves from the outside in instead of the inside out.

SPEAKER_03: 26:49

Absolutely. Well, Issa, so we've covered the first two. Yes. We've talked about identifying our triggers, and we've talked about protecting our peace. Those are so very important. I think that's the very foundation of healing. Yes. And uh when we meet again, we're going to dig into those last three, those last three uh healing, healthy or healing holiday relationships. Man, say that five times really healing holiday relationships. I did it! We really appreciate you guys watching.

SPEAKER_04: 27:25

So, Asa, any last words? No, just thank you. Just be mindful, just be aware, and go back to basics. Sit there and do a self-assessment. It becomes faster and faster every time when you recognize your own body, your own mindset, and you acknowledge that other people are having an experience just as you are.

SPEAKER_03: 27:44

Absolutely. All right, thank you guys for watching. See you next time. Bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_01: 27:50

Thank you for watching us. We really appreciate you being here. If you enjoyed the episode, a like, subscribe, share with a friend, and join us next time. Thank you. Bye bye.