SPEAKER_04: 0:00

Uh last week we talked about the first two things. In that healing the holiday relationships, we're talking about five different ways of healing that uh can be applied toward holiday relationships, friendships, any kind of friendship, family type relationship. Correct. Yes. And I think they can all also work for other things, but that's where we're gonna stick. So the first thing, two things that we talked about was identifying our triggers, correct? And we really talked about how developing that awareness was is the first step. Awareness of what is causing me to be triggered, what about that is a trigger, those kind of things. So just kind of looking at that, you know, search me and and know. Uh and then the second one was protecting our peace. Yes. Yeah, we don't do that very well.

SPEAKER_00: 0:54

Hello everybody, and welcome to A Better Way to Heal, where faith meets therapy.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00

Well, here we are again. I am Ellie. Hello, and I'm Esa. And you are watching or listening to A Better Way to Heal where Faith Meets Therapy. Yes. So uh we started a conversation last week and we really wanted to kind of continue. We knew it was going to be kind of meaty, and so we decided to do it in uh a two-parter. Yes. So the uh the title is Healing Holiday Relationships and Healing Holiday Relationships. Oh, I can say it really quickly. Yes, say that three times real fast. Uh last week we talked about the first two things. Uh the in that healing holiday relationships, we're talking about five different ways of healing that uh can be applied toward holiday relationships, friendships, any kind of la uh any kind of friendship, family type relationship. Correct. Yes. Uh and I think they can all also work for other things, but that's where we're gonna stick. Um so the first thing, two things that we talked about was identifying our triggers, correct? And we really talked about how developing that awareness was is the first step. Awareness of what is causing me to be triggered, what about that is a trigger, those kind of things. So just kind of looking at that, you know, search me and and know. Uh and then the second one was protecting our peace. Yes. Yeah, we don't do that very well.

SPEAKER_02: 2:37

We don't. Um we sometimes are reactive because we haven't prepared and been mindful, so we tend to be reactive, and that type of behavior tends to cause more trauma and more breakage and more baggage and more shame. And it's like this vicious cycle.

SPEAKER_04: 2:53

Right. I think sometimes we think we've protected our our our peace when we put walls up that are so high that we can't even see out, and that keeps other people out. But it keeps you out as well.

SPEAKER_02: 3:09

It keeps you in isolation.

SPEAKER_04: 3:11

Absolutely. It definitely will keep you trapped in your own mess. And and it's in relationships that we break, yes, it's in relationships that we heal. And uh I believe that God never meant for us to do life alone at all. At all.

SPEAKER_02: 3:26

Fellowship continuously, do not forsake meeting with one another. Uh we use that a lot to go to church as a reason to go to church, but that's not even what it's talking about. It says do not forsake gathering with one another and the breaking of the bread. I don't know about you, but we don't sit eating at church, right? Not that we eat spiritually, and there is a place for that. But it's talking beyond that. It's talking about relational experiences, believers, and that's even important for family. You know, when you are married, if you don't date, if you don't sit, if you don't talk, if you don't break bread, you're creating this giant chasm between a person that's different than you, and you're growing in different directions and in probably with different perspectives. So it's it's valuable to every relationship to spend time together in the mundane, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 4:18

So kind of moving on into that, the the next thing we really want to look at is adjusting expectations. I think sometimes we go into a situation, a scenario where we are expecting people to be maybe ourselves or some version of themselves that they aren't even anywhere close to.

SPEAKER_02: 4:46

Correct. Correct. And an example to piggyback on something we talked about last week, um, my friend Ellie, which is this isn't true, this didn't happen, but I was waiting here for her for an hour, right? This is the scenario, and I had an expectation of her either coming in apologetically or whatever expectation I may have built about this moment, and I spent an entire hour brewing in this unmet expectation. And instead of allowing for grace or allowing for the fact that she's an entire individual and life was happening to her outside of my space, I've already come up with this attack towards her character, towards her person. Um, and that unmet expectation, when it's unchecked, when I don't go introspectionally and say, you know, it something could have happened to her in traffic. In fact, it could be as innocent as, you know, we would have we may have had the wrong time. She may have thought we were meeting at two, and I thought we were meeting at one. Great.

SPEAKER_04: 5:43

That's actually happened to us before.

SPEAKER_02: 5:44

It happened to us before.

SPEAKER_04: 5:46

That one did the happening.

SPEAKER_02: 5:49

That was so funny. Yeah, like that happened for lunch. When we were first talking about the podcast, when we were gonna play the podcast. Oh my gosh. Yes, that is true. And and that that can happen. So when you live in a place where not, I'm not saying lower your standards, lower your expectation of other people in the sense of regard them as individuals, regard them as people living a life outside of you. And sometimes you do have to uh hold your friends accountable. Of course, there's a space for that, but hold yourself accountable first. And that starts with how are you gonna handle this scenario, this unmet expectation.

SPEAKER_04: 6:29

Absolutely. I mean, if you will, imagine if I would have taken offense and said, I don't want to hear anything you have to say. Yeah. When it was simply a misunderstanding. Correct. And we have to hold space for that. We we try to hold other people to a standard that I don't think we even hold ourselves to.

SPEAKER_02: 6:49

Correct. We find justification in our shortcomings. It's easier for me to justify why I was short with you. I was just hungry. We can find, I mean, that might be true, but am I minimizing my behavior while exaggerating the other person's behavior because of how it made me feel, not taking into account that this other person carries their own feelings, right? Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 7:14

You know, we talked last week, and I talk about this often. I have clients that will come to me that have these unrealistic expectations. Let's, for instance, my husband washes the dishes and puts them in the second sink instead of putting them in the dishwasher. Well, if he always does that, and I'm expecting him to put them in the dishwasher, and I never share with him why it's important for me that they go in the dishwasher, and I've got this unrealistic expectation. My husband is amazing, and he puts the dishes in the dishwasher. Even if he didn't, you know, that wouldn't really even matter. But well, you have these unrealistic expectations of well, this person should read my mind and they should know. Correct. That one is such a big one. Well, did you tell them?

SPEAKER_02: 8:03

Yeah. And that happens, I think, very most frequently in marriage because we're living with people. I can even admit that it when I was younger, in my younger years, that happened a lot to me. I was of the mindset of if if I have to ask you to do it, then it's not meaningful, then then I'm making you do it. And I realize now that was my trauma. I believe that because I had so many unmet needs growing up, and I felt like a burden that I felt that if somebody truly, especially a romantic partner, really loved me, then it would happen without me asking. I had this this idealized version instead of the ver the mature healed version that understands that people don't live in my head, and that we all, yeah, there's things that will come naturally, but not everything comes naturally because we have different needs, different desires, different love languages. There's so many things that are different that need to be shared and communicated in order to find unity. But immaturity and trauma led me to believe you must not care enough because you you didn't know I was hungry and got me food.

SPEAKER_04: 9:21

Like, absolutely, you know, or very early on in our marriage, uh, it's our five-year wedding, and I don't have it on right now, so uh, but it was our five-year wedding anniversary, and my husband and I went and we were looking at anniversary rings, and it was they were beautiful, and there was a platinum one that I really wanted. I didn't tell him I really wanted that one. I was just like, oh, that one is so cool. I didn't say this is the one I really want, I didn't say this. So um, and I'm not very proud of this, so I'm not very proud of this. Um he got me a white gold one and I threw it a temper tantrum. I mean a straight-up temper tantrum. I look back at it now and I'm the damage I must have done to him. I mean, I yeah. And and it's funny now, but we um we obviously made it 19 more years, so yeah, we were able to repair the damage. Yeah however, well, it took a it took me a little while before we could get to that yeah to that spot because I was healing out loud.

SPEAKER_02: 10:36

Correct, yes. And I I'm gonna piggyback on that. In that moment, that injury felt very real to her. Now at this stage of her healing journey, she realizes that was damaging to him, but in that moment, it it was hurtful to her. How did you not recognize? How did you not know this is what I wanted?

SPEAKER_04: 10:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 10:58

And if we don't process those things um internally first, we we do that, the unmet expectations, absolutely, and we're holding people accountable for things we haven't expressed, and it takes a level of maturity. Now, I think kind of like building on that, it doesn't mean that once you have shared an expectation and a person intentionally or callously ignores something you have said that it there isn't a conversation required to hold people accountable. But but what we're talking about is when you haven't shared and you're holding people accountable to things they don't even know exist. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 11:42

I think this can go even even away from the the spousal relationship and think about our children. Yes, you know, uh I and I did this to my own children, expected them to be at levels higher than they're they were. Well, why can't you clean up after yourself? Or why can't you why can't you know that you need to do this? Or and we hold people to these unrealistic expectations and that aren't even developmentally appropriate. And well, how come what you didn't know that hitting your brother was a bad thing? Well, he might have understood that, but in the moment it he wasn't thinking he was playing well and impulse control. Let's say I got mad, you took my toy, I'm mad, and I hit you because I have no impulse control. We teach them impulse control, we don't teach them how bad they are because of what they did.

SPEAKER_02: 12:37

Correct. Hey, there's consequences to doing this, absolutely, and these are the consequences. Absolutely. And right now I'm I'm as a parent giving you the consequence of you have to go to your room for 15 minutes, but life later on will give you consequences like jail, you know. So that's that's kind of like how you you're so right. Um I still have those revelations to these days, and I have five children, but sometimes I think and definitely how I parented my oldest versus how I parent my youngest with the awareness that she doesn't know what I haven't taught her. And it it brings me to this platform because it goes back to the ring and it goes back to her feelings. We a met expectations is seeing everything through the filter of you and assuming that everybody is privy to the same information you have that you take for granted as have learned throughout the years, because you've been with you this whole time inside of your head and have processed life through your lens. We have to be so intentional and mindful, yes, of ourselves, but of the idea that other people didn't live our life. We did. Right, right. And we know the things that we know because we either were taught, if we were, or learned the hard way on our own. So for instance, house chores is a big one. I've been doing it for 46 years of my life, and I know that you empty the bucket before you mop with the old water, you don't use the water before, but we take that for granted and we think it's common sense when a child has only been exposed to what they've been exposed to, period. They don't learn by osmosis, they don't learn because you know, they learn because you teach.

SPEAKER_04: 14:24

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 14:25

And um that should give us a level of humility as parents and take a step back. Yeah, and it's okay to apologize because I've had to do that. I'm like, you know, I'm sorry that I was holding you to something I never taught you.

unknown: 14:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 14:38

It's very humbling, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 14:41

So, really honestly, adjusting your expectations, you know, uh not to not to let people get away with things, but just because we're not trying to cause a fra uh uh cause fractures, you know. Uh the word talks about that. And uh the next thing that we really want to talk about is small connections. Uh when uh I'm in a group setting, you know, we talked a lot uh last week about the the Last Supper. You know, when I'm in a group setting, maybe not everyone in that group is safe. Maybe I am, let's say the we're at a holiday gathering, let's say Christmas, and not everyone in there is my favorite person. Maybe uh maybe we create smaller safe people that we can come to and say, you know, I'm I'm I'm really struggling and I could use some um I could use some support here. Yeah. And maybe every time we talk about religion or we talk about politics, things get a little uh heated. And so just knowing that you have a safe person in the room and doing small activities or like um doing a puzzle together, or we have this fun game that we do every year where we uh we do the gingerbread man, we decorate the gingerbread man. So finding a safe person to decorate the gingerbread man, you don't have to interact with everyone there, right?

SPEAKER_02: 17:10

And I think also as as she was speaking, and I'm thinking of those scenarios, this is not gonna, I'm not calling anybody dog, but there is a method in in training a dog um at home where you redirect. For instance, if they're chewing, they're chewing furniture or they're when they're puppies and they're trying to nip at you, you one of the training methods is redirection. So you have a toy that you give them in replacement to what they're chewing. So you correct, you say no, but then you replace it with something positive that they are allowed to chew because puppies are gonna chew, right? So family setting in the scenario of a gathering in the holiday. It might be that when you're sitting eating, it always goes to politics, and that's the sore spot. And I'm using this because of the climate that we're living in, and it's pretty applicable. It doesn't always have to be trauma, it could be current events. So you could feed into that, but you already know it always ends badly because the person bringing it up doesn't have respect or boundaries for differences, right? We because I'm not saying political discussions should never be had. I don't think that's true. If there's an environment where there's respect and conversations can be had, that's how you grow and learn perspective. But if you know you have a toxic environment in which when there's disagreements, it escalates into verbal assault or worse, then pivoting and redirecting, like with a game. For instance, if you feel that the conversation's brewing, no longer entertain it. You if you feel confident enough to be the one to redirect the environment by saying, you know what? I remember when we used to play this, we should totally like come prepared, come with Uno cards or something where you can redirect the conversation. Yeah, if that person still wants to continue to entertain that, you'll see how the people that are in a state of mind will redirect with you. Right. And it's a way of not even telling the person to be quiet, just don't engage in political conversation yourself, and then find a replacement to what's going on. Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 19:15

Because we really want to that whole thing of not for psyching being with one another. People are difficult, you know. I'm just gonna I say this all the time, people are messy.

SPEAKER_02: 19:24

Yeah, and sometimes I'm the messy one. Absolutely, that's where grace comes.

SPEAKER_04: 19:28

Sometimes I'm the one going through something. Yeah. When I was throwing a temper tantrum, I I definitely was the messy one in that moment. So, you know, we can all be uh we can all be messy, but you know, ecclesiastics really reminds us that that we when we're alone, we're vulnerable. And when we're together, we can fight the battles that we need to fight for in this world. Correct. So yes, very good, very good. All right, so the fifth one, I bet y'all been waiting on this one, right? Is permission to step away. Yes, because sometimes no matter what we've done in all of these scenarios, things are still escalating. So and it's not failure to if to have to step away. You know what? Okay, I I've I've had some family time or I've had some friend time. Now it's time for me time. So now I'm gonna take a moment and I'm going to step away and I'm going to care for myself.

SPEAKER_02: 20:32

And in a good scenario, we can go back to the previous one in the sense of redirecting. They started the conversation that you know ends in nuclear war. You tried redirecting because you don't necessarily want to end family time, you want to essentially heal family time, and this is your way of attempting it. But that continues, that insists, you're being mocked. It's like, okay, all right, well, this was great. It's time to go home and and remove yourself. Like at some point, it's it's essentially like being out in the cold. You're out in the weather and it's freezing. You can put a coat on and see if you can still manage the situation and be like, okay, I can handle it with a coat. We can we can be here in the cold with a coat. But if the coat is not enough, it's time to go inside and get by the fireplace. That's the same scenario with social interactions. Sometimes you can use buffers that allow you to remain so that you can participate in situations that are important to you, but sometimes that's not enough, and it's okay to seek shelter from that situation.

SPEAKER_04: 21:38

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we've really talked a lot about a lot of different things, and I want to recap those five those five things. You first you identify your triggers, notice what's going on, then you need to protect your peace, you know, set those boundaries, and then adjust expectations, not everybody is gonna be you, correct, and create small connections within uh within a group. And you don't always have to be uh, you know, we try to be with everyone, but sometimes we just create small connections or even connecting points, that's not something that we really talked about. We can explore that one more later, but really connecting points, maybe sometimes uh there's something we can connect with instead of the politics. Maybe we can connect with pottery because I'm always gonna talk about pottery. Uh, and then you know, if if none of those work, really just allowing yourself permission to step away. Yeah, we didn't talk a lot about shame, but shame can really infest all of these different areas when we're struggling, when we're healing out loud, sometimes it's because we're dealing with excessive amounts of shame. Yes, yeah. So, and these environments can very can be very toxic if I'm still struggling with shame. And I've immediately that expectations immediately, what did I do wrong to make to make Issa late? Yeah, I I could really beat myself up, so we really want to make sure that we're addressing our own issues of shame.

SPEAKER_02: 23:17

Yes, and I think when we are intentional without being self-centered, and I mean like internalized in the sense of like, okay, what of this is within my control? What of this is coming from me and what isn't, and deal with that and then have grace to what's outside of you and make a decision for you that doesn't put the other person to blame. So, like to me, that is okay, I how can I respond to this in a way where I am not causing harm, but I'm also protecting myself, and it takes time. It's funny, we talked about this in Bible study today this morning. It's it's taking the time that will make it so that you spend more time quiet before speaking, and you'll be aware of that, and that's a good thing. Yeah, it's a pause, you don't always have to have a quick response to everything. You can sit there and be, is this worth responding to? And if it is, how should I respond? Yes, and will this respond bring peace or chaos? Is this a person I can I know I can work things with, or is this a person that I need to leave alone in this moment because it's not going to result in anything productive? Yeah. And you can do that on a case-by-case basis. Am I even prepared to handle Discord right now because I haven't eaten? Right. It might not be a good time to brighten up. It might not.

SPEAKER_04: 24:51

And so, and we're we're when we're practicing that pause, it's the act of listening. If I'm listening to you, I don't know what how I'm gonna respond because I'm l actively listening to you. I want to seek first to understand, and that's where a lot of our miscommunication comes because a lot of times you're talking and I'm oh oh oh, I'm gonna respond to that. Oh, that's yeah, that dig on that one. No, seek first to understand, yeah, because when we understand, those are connecting points. We can really seek to understand what's going on. I can hear Issa's heart and and she can hear mine, and instead of waiting to get my point in, and sometimes we can be in a group of women. I've had some really good groups of women, and some of them I really felt like I'm just sitting on the the wheel on the outside because they're constantly talking and just and I'm the quiet one, right? So I'm the one that's not gonna be in the center of everything, and I really had to I had to kind of get to know who I am, and that's you know, and just really start paying attention to them, and as I'm actively listening and reflecting back to them, that was a connecting point for us. It really was.

SPEAKER_02: 26:13

Yeah. So yeah, yeah. I think in a a good analogy for that too is imagine conversations as somebody showing you what's inside their their suitcase. So they're opening their suitcase and they're showing you what's in there. It is not a time for you to inventory and be that shouldn't be in there. Why are you taking that to the beach? They're just showing you what's in there. And then you don't have to compare it to your backpack because that's a separate backpack, even though you're going in the same direction. It's a way of understanding what's in the bag. That's I I've been wanting and been teaching myself to see conversations in that way. Okay, this may trigger me, but this isn't about my backpack. This is about their backpack. Let's let them inventory their backpack and then see what the point of that even is. Are they wanting to be heard? Are they wanting to change their backpack? Are they wanting to look into mine? Or are they just sharing? This is what's in my backpack.

SPEAKER_06: 27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 27:17

And if it is in order to re-inventory so that we're all on the same page, that can be addressed after. Absolutely. But acknowledge, oh, I see what's in your backpack. I bet it's heavy. You know, how do you feel about what's in your backpack? Is there something you still want there, or is there something you think you need to get away? Because sometimes people don't want anything but to tell you what's in their backpack. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes they're like, Do you think I should take the sunblock? And I know this is minimizing, I'm just trying to put it in a practical way. Right. But listen so that you know, is this an inventory check, or is this what do you think I should do? Or is this a toxic situation where look what you put in my backpack and you know you haven't touched your backpack? Like, you know, then kind of like assess it that way and don't commingle those backpacks. Don't then bring your backpack on top of theirs, but look at mine, you know, just kind of like compartmentalize. I think it's weird because you know, this associative disorder is something that happens when you're traumatized. But I feel like every every emotion and every trauma had a positive need at some point to protect you. But if you're intentional about it using maybe disassociate from their emotion so that you can process it without emotion. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 28:41

The ability to dissociate is normal. Most of us do it. And yes, it can become a disorder when there's a history of trauma or something along those lines. And yes, we really need to inventory our own stuff. You know, internal locus of control versus external locus of control. I cannot control what Issa does, and I will wear myself out trying to correct. I don't need to fix her. That is from that is between her, her therapist, and her and God. You know, God is the ultimate, of course, always. But I can't, I can't, I mean, I can't control myself half the time. And I mean I can. I that's something. We work on it, we struggle with it, right? We wrestle it. We wrestle with it, right? But allowing her the space to be real and raw gives her the growth. Yeah. So we've talked a lot today. Yes, and we look forward to hearing what you think. And we're always open to any ideals. If anybody has any ideals for any future uh posts or post podcasts, podcasts, you know, just let us know. We're always trying to plan ahead.

SPEAKER_02: 30:01

So feel free to comment if you're watching this on YouTube or if you're watching it on Facebook. We do apologize ahead of hand ahead of time. If you're commenting on YouTube and we don't respond right away, obviously we don't get notifications like that, but please comment when we get to it, we'll try to respond directly. Yeah. Um, if you're watching on YouTube, go to the Facebook page. You'll probably get a faster response there.

SPEAKER_04: 30:24

I am trying to be better at catching those.

SPEAKER_02: 30:26

So but please do so, engage, ask questions, concerns, um, and we will do our best to respond, whether it's Ellie or myself. Um most of the time it will be Ellie since it's on her page. But if I see it, I'll do my best to to respond as well.

SPEAKER_04: 30:41

Absolutely. Well, thank you guys for watching. I'll just keep it up, keep doing wonderful and great things, and we will see you next time.

SPEAKER_00: 30:49

All right, thank you.

SPEAKER_04: 30:50

Have a good one. Bye.

SPEAKER_00: 30:53

Thank you for watching us. We really appreciate you being here. If you enjoyed the episode, like, subscribe, share with a friend, and join us next time. Thank you. Bye bye.